Eternal
03-07-2011, 05:55 AM
GARCHOMPhttp://images.wikia.com/pokemon/images/5/52/GarchompSprite.pnghttp://pokemon.neoseeker.com/w/i/pokemon/2/2a/Garchomp_male_sprite_dp.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum_action/445.png
Recently Garchomp has been the most threatening and game changing Pokemon of the 5th generation. In this thread post your views on Garchomp and whether you believe if it's a potential suspect.
Type - http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/rs/assorted/t_drg.png/http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/rs/assorted/t_grd.png
Ability - Sand Veil: Sand Veil increases the evasion of a Pokémon by 20% in a sandstorm and if on a Pokémon whose type does not already, grants immunity to damage taken from sandstorms.
HP: 326 - 420
Attack: 238 - 394
Defense: 175 - 317
Sp.Atk: 148 - 284
Sp.Def: 157 - 295
Speed: 188 - 333
Only the following most popular used Pokemon in the Wifi tier out speed Garchomp:
- Gengar = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Excadrill w/ Sand Power + Sandstorm - Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp on Yacheless Garchomp
- Latios
- Starmie = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless Ice Beam on Yacheless Garchomp
- Infernape = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Thundurus = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Jolteon = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Landorus = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Mienshao = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Espeon = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Terakion = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Aerodactyl = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Deoxys-S = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless Ice Beam on Yacheless Garchomp
- Virizion = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Latias
- Weavile = Is unable to revenge kill Yache Garchomp
- Azelf = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
As you can see, almost nothing is a good revenge killer against Garchomp. Many Garchomps also carry Substitute, which it Substitutes on slower and bulkier Pokemon to take advantage of the Sand Veil + Brightpowder. Meaning it's almost certain you're going to lose something in a game. While even revenge killing becomes immensely hard when a Garchomp is under Substitute. And very frustrating when there's also Sandstorm in the field.
Possible counters?
Here's what a standard Jolly Garchomp with 252 EVs in Atk with Brightpowder or Yache Berry would do vs...
Ferrothorn (Sassy 252HP/252SpDef) - Swords Dance + Earthquake = 73.3 % - 86.4% (100% 2HKO)
Ferrothorn (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 96.6% - 113.6%
Gliscor (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 68% - 80.5% (100% 2HKO)
Reuniclus (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 80% - 94.4% (Almost OHKO)
Gyarados (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 83.3% - 98.2% (100% OHKO with SR up)
Skarmory (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 48.5% - 57.5% (Possible 2HKO)
Swampert (Relaxed 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 75% - 88.4% (Almost OHKO)
Hippowdon (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 60% - 70.7% (100% 2HKO)
Zapdos (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 81.5% - 96.4% (100% OHKO with SR up)
Bronzong (Relaxed 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 54.4% - 64.5% (2HKO'd)
Suicune (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 63.4% - 75% (100% 2HKO)
Chansey (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 73.7% - 86.9%
Donphan (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 64.8% - 76.6%
Slowbro (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 67% - 79.2%
Cresselia (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 56% - 66.2%
Quagsire + Unaware (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Outrage (ability neglects boosts) = 39.9% - 47%
The above statistics show how much Garchomp does to these Pokemon while these Pokemon are at there full defensive limit. As you can see, other than Quagsire, not one of the Pokemon can successfully take more than 2 hits after Garchomp has Swords Danced. While you may say that at least these Pokemon are capable of taking 1 hit from Garchomp. Well then you're wrong, you neglected the other factors. You neglected Garchomp's incredible bulk. Lets see what these Pokemon can do to counter Garchomp when Garchomp has Swords Danced:
Garchomp with 0 EVs in HP or Def or SpDef
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball does = 44.7% - 52.8% (Not even a reliable 2HKO)
Gliscor's Ice Fang does = 52.5% - 62.6% and w/ Yache Berry does 26.3% - 31.3%
Reuniclus' Psychic does = 37.7% - 44.7%
Gyarados' Waterfall does = 30.5% - 36.3%
Skarmory's Brave Bird does = 31.3% - 37.2%
Swampert's Ice Beam does = 76% - 90.5% and w/ Yache Berry does 38% - 45.3%
Hippowdon's Ice Fang does = 60.3% - 71.5% and w/ Yache Berry does 30.7% - 35.8%
Zapdos' HP Ice does = 78.2% - 92.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 39.1% - 46.4%
Bronzong's HP Ice does = 48% - 57% and w/ Yache Berry does 24% - 28.5%
Suicune's Ice Beam does = 80.5% - 95% and w/ Yache Berry does 40.2% - 47.5%
Chansey's Ice Beam does = 40.2% - 48% and w/ Yache Berry does 20.1% - 24%
Donphan's Ice Shard does = 40.2% - 48% and w/ Yache Berry does 20.1% - 24%
Slowbro's Ice Beam does = 88.3% - 103.9% (25% chance of OHKO) and w/ Yache Berry does 44.1% - 52%
Cresselia's Ice Beam does = 69.3% - 82.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 34.6% - 41.3%
Quagsire's Ice Beam does = 62.6% - 72.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 31.3% - 36.9%
Well now you can see how bulky Garchomp is. This beast can take Hidden Power Ices and Ice Beams so easily with those statistics there, and with Yache Berry it's even more dangerous in taking it's only x4 weakness with ease. Now you're probably wondering, well at least I'm able to Whirlwind/Roar this thing out with my Skarmory or Gyarados before it further sweeps my team or I'm able to Slack Off/Recover and not let 1 SD Garchmp sweep me with Outrage as I can hope for some confuse hit luck. Well you're still wrong then, because you haven't even taken into account Garchomp's deadliest trait, Sand Veil, it's ability to EVADE YOUR MOVES. And enhanced with Brightpowder, the chances of you touching its godly presense is greatly diminished.
*Garchomp is able to Substitute a total of 4 times on any of those "probable" counters you send in. And a total of 5 times when carrying Leftovers.
What's the probabilty of touching Garchomp when it's under Sandstorm?
Well, if your move is a 100% accuracy move, then your chances of touching a Brightpowderless Garchomp such as a Garchomp carrying Leftovers is 80%. But hey, Garchomp can use its Substitute move for more chances to evade your Ice Beam or HP Ice or Whirlwind or whatever the pathetic move you have against it. The chances of you hitting it again now diminishes to 0.8^2 = 64%. And Garchomp can Substitute its 3rd time if you hit, which further diminishes your chances of hitting it to 0.8^3 = 51.2%. And you're really lucky with that coin flip, Garchomp can just say ***** please and ruin take the flip in it's advantage and diminish your chances of touching it a 4th time with another Substitute, chances are only 40.96% of hitting it again. But hey, you're probably a lucky fellow and hit through all of those Substitutes, Garchomp says "cool story bro" to you and Substitute again because of all the Leftovers recovery it had been recovering from, so your chances of touching it now is 32.8%. You're one lucky fellow if you hit it through all of that, but hey you haven't beaten Garchomp yet. Because now you'll have to go for another shot at touching it to actually beat it, so you're final chance is now 26.2%, which is almost a one-fourth of a chance. That's like the chances of you calling heads and you flip a coin and get heads twice.
Heck, that's just Garchomp with Leftovers. Your chances are even less of touching Garchomp when it's holding Brightpowder. See for yourself:
- Chance of a 100% accuracy move touching a Brightpowder Gachomp under Sandstorm: 1 x 0.8 x 0.9 = 0.72 = 72% chance
- Chance of hitting it again after Substitute = 0.72^2 = 51.84%
- Chance of hitting it a 3rd time = 0.72^3 = 37.3%
- Chance of hitting it a 4th time = 0.72^4 = 26.87%
- Chance of hitting it a final time to beat it = 0.72^5 = 19.35%
Yea, good luck mate, have fun getting lucky at beating a Garchomp. Garchomp will just laugh all over you... and don't cry when it does just like the 9235 other people I've swept with it with ease.
Recently Garchomp has been the most threatening and game changing Pokemon of the 5th generation. In this thread post your views on Garchomp and whether you believe if it's a potential suspect.
Type - http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/rs/assorted/t_drg.png/http://pokemon.marriland.com/images/rs/assorted/t_grd.png
Ability - Sand Veil: Sand Veil increases the evasion of a Pokémon by 20% in a sandstorm and if on a Pokémon whose type does not already, grants immunity to damage taken from sandstorms.
HP: 326 - 420
Attack: 238 - 394
Defense: 175 - 317
Sp.Atk: 148 - 284
Sp.Def: 157 - 295
Speed: 188 - 333
Only the following most popular used Pokemon in the Wifi tier out speed Garchomp:
- Gengar = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Excadrill w/ Sand Power + Sandstorm - Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp on Yacheless Garchomp
- Latios
- Starmie = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless Ice Beam on Yacheless Garchomp
- Infernape = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Thundurus = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Jolteon = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Landorus = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Mienshao = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Espeon = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Terakion = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Aerodactyl = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
- Deoxys-S = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless Ice Beam on Yacheless Garchomp
- Virizion = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp, unless HP Ice on Yacheless Garchomp
- Latias
- Weavile = Is unable to revenge kill Yache Garchomp
- Azelf = Is unable to revenge kill Garchomp
As you can see, almost nothing is a good revenge killer against Garchomp. Many Garchomps also carry Substitute, which it Substitutes on slower and bulkier Pokemon to take advantage of the Sand Veil + Brightpowder. Meaning it's almost certain you're going to lose something in a game. While even revenge killing becomes immensely hard when a Garchomp is under Substitute. And very frustrating when there's also Sandstorm in the field.
Possible counters?
Here's what a standard Jolly Garchomp with 252 EVs in Atk with Brightpowder or Yache Berry would do vs...
Ferrothorn (Sassy 252HP/252SpDef) - Swords Dance + Earthquake = 73.3 % - 86.4% (100% 2HKO)
Ferrothorn (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 96.6% - 113.6%
Gliscor (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 68% - 80.5% (100% 2HKO)
Reuniclus (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 80% - 94.4% (Almost OHKO)
Gyarados (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 83.3% - 98.2% (100% OHKO with SR up)
Skarmory (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 48.5% - 57.5% (Possible 2HKO)
Swampert (Relaxed 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 75% - 88.4% (Almost OHKO)
Hippowdon (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 60% - 70.7% (100% 2HKO)
Zapdos (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 81.5% - 96.4% (100% OHKO with SR up)
Bronzong (Relaxed 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Fire Fang = 54.4% - 64.5% (2HKO'd)
Suicune (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 63.4% - 75% (100% 2HKO)
Chansey (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 73.7% - 86.9%
Donphan (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 64.8% - 76.6%
Slowbro (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 67% - 79.2%
Cresselia (Bold 252HP/252Def) - Swords Dance + Outrage = 56% - 66.2%
Quagsire + Unaware (Impish 252HP/252Def) - Outrage (ability neglects boosts) = 39.9% - 47%
The above statistics show how much Garchomp does to these Pokemon while these Pokemon are at there full defensive limit. As you can see, other than Quagsire, not one of the Pokemon can successfully take more than 2 hits after Garchomp has Swords Danced. While you may say that at least these Pokemon are capable of taking 1 hit from Garchomp. Well then you're wrong, you neglected the other factors. You neglected Garchomp's incredible bulk. Lets see what these Pokemon can do to counter Garchomp when Garchomp has Swords Danced:
Garchomp with 0 EVs in HP or Def or SpDef
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball does = 44.7% - 52.8% (Not even a reliable 2HKO)
Gliscor's Ice Fang does = 52.5% - 62.6% and w/ Yache Berry does 26.3% - 31.3%
Reuniclus' Psychic does = 37.7% - 44.7%
Gyarados' Waterfall does = 30.5% - 36.3%
Skarmory's Brave Bird does = 31.3% - 37.2%
Swampert's Ice Beam does = 76% - 90.5% and w/ Yache Berry does 38% - 45.3%
Hippowdon's Ice Fang does = 60.3% - 71.5% and w/ Yache Berry does 30.7% - 35.8%
Zapdos' HP Ice does = 78.2% - 92.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 39.1% - 46.4%
Bronzong's HP Ice does = 48% - 57% and w/ Yache Berry does 24% - 28.5%
Suicune's Ice Beam does = 80.5% - 95% and w/ Yache Berry does 40.2% - 47.5%
Chansey's Ice Beam does = 40.2% - 48% and w/ Yache Berry does 20.1% - 24%
Donphan's Ice Shard does = 40.2% - 48% and w/ Yache Berry does 20.1% - 24%
Slowbro's Ice Beam does = 88.3% - 103.9% (25% chance of OHKO) and w/ Yache Berry does 44.1% - 52%
Cresselia's Ice Beam does = 69.3% - 82.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 34.6% - 41.3%
Quagsire's Ice Beam does = 62.6% - 72.7% and w/ Yache Berry does 31.3% - 36.9%
Well now you can see how bulky Garchomp is. This beast can take Hidden Power Ices and Ice Beams so easily with those statistics there, and with Yache Berry it's even more dangerous in taking it's only x4 weakness with ease. Now you're probably wondering, well at least I'm able to Whirlwind/Roar this thing out with my Skarmory or Gyarados before it further sweeps my team or I'm able to Slack Off/Recover and not let 1 SD Garchmp sweep me with Outrage as I can hope for some confuse hit luck. Well you're still wrong then, because you haven't even taken into account Garchomp's deadliest trait, Sand Veil, it's ability to EVADE YOUR MOVES. And enhanced with Brightpowder, the chances of you touching its godly presense is greatly diminished.
*Garchomp is able to Substitute a total of 4 times on any of those "probable" counters you send in. And a total of 5 times when carrying Leftovers.
What's the probabilty of touching Garchomp when it's under Sandstorm?
Well, if your move is a 100% accuracy move, then your chances of touching a Brightpowderless Garchomp such as a Garchomp carrying Leftovers is 80%. But hey, Garchomp can use its Substitute move for more chances to evade your Ice Beam or HP Ice or Whirlwind or whatever the pathetic move you have against it. The chances of you hitting it again now diminishes to 0.8^2 = 64%. And Garchomp can Substitute its 3rd time if you hit, which further diminishes your chances of hitting it to 0.8^3 = 51.2%. And you're really lucky with that coin flip, Garchomp can just say ***** please and ruin take the flip in it's advantage and diminish your chances of touching it a 4th time with another Substitute, chances are only 40.96% of hitting it again. But hey, you're probably a lucky fellow and hit through all of those Substitutes, Garchomp says "cool story bro" to you and Substitute again because of all the Leftovers recovery it had been recovering from, so your chances of touching it now is 32.8%. You're one lucky fellow if you hit it through all of that, but hey you haven't beaten Garchomp yet. Because now you'll have to go for another shot at touching it to actually beat it, so you're final chance is now 26.2%, which is almost a one-fourth of a chance. That's like the chances of you calling heads and you flip a coin and get heads twice.
Heck, that's just Garchomp with Leftovers. Your chances are even less of touching Garchomp when it's holding Brightpowder. See for yourself:
- Chance of a 100% accuracy move touching a Brightpowder Gachomp under Sandstorm: 1 x 0.8 x 0.9 = 0.72 = 72% chance
- Chance of hitting it again after Substitute = 0.72^2 = 51.84%
- Chance of hitting it a 3rd time = 0.72^3 = 37.3%
- Chance of hitting it a 4th time = 0.72^4 = 26.87%
- Chance of hitting it a final time to beat it = 0.72^5 = 19.35%
Yea, good luck mate, have fun getting lucky at beating a Garchomp. Garchomp will just laugh all over you... and don't cry when it does just like the 9235 other people I've swept with it with ease.