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View Full Version : Black and White Type Tiering: Day 5.2 - Poison.



Dabottle
09-05-2012, 12:25 PM
Ice won't provide much discussion, so this one's happening too.

Vote for tomorrow's type here! (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHVRRFdoTTFVemtnTndxT3c3MlJ1U3c6M Q#gid=0) Just to clarify, previous votes do not carry over. If you don't state your username, I'm throwing the vote out.


Every day, we will be tiering the ingame utility of every Pokémon of a certain type, in relation to other Pokémon of that type. Each thread will last three days. You may debate the utility of each Pokémon as much as you wish in their thread.
At the end of the three day period, a finalised list will be drawn up with an explanation for each Pokémon's location.

Feel free to give suggestions! ^_^

Rules:
1. Provide an argument with your suggestion.
2. For version exclusives, assume you're playing the game they're in.
3. Read the section below.

Things to factor:


Stats.
Movepool.
Evolution level/method.
Availability.
Utility.
Gym and E4 matchups.



The Pokémon we will be evaluating this time are:


Scolipede.
Garbodor.
Amoonguss.



Current Tier List:

Top Tier:
-Placeholder.-

High Tier:
Scolipede.

Mid Tier:
Amoonguss.

Low Tier:
-Placeholder.-

Bottom Tier:
Garbodor.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 12:34 PM
This topic's discussion:
Where do we put Garbodor and Amoongus?

At least we'll have them over with...

Zachgoose
09-05-2012, 03:18 PM
Wow, poison types suck.

Low tier:
Scolipede- It has decent stats and is available early, but it has a terrible movepool. I suppose it is helpful for the 3rd gym, at least, but it's still probably not worth the investment.
Amoonguss- Slow, weak, and doesn't even get Spore until a ridiculously high level. There are simply just better Pokemon around for ingame.

Trash tier:
Garbodor- Even less useful moves than the other two, and TMs can't even remedy this. Not worth using unless you just like ugly Pokemon.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 04:04 PM
Scolipede should probably be Mid Tier. It's not too bad. While its ingame moveset isn't the best, Megahorn's very useful against the E4 and it has a 4x Fighting resistance. It can also use Rock Slide in the Ice gym.

Too bad it only gets SD in the postgame. Leavanny's so much better than it. :/ But that's for the Bug topic, whenever that is.

I don't know anything about the other two, but they're both pretty bad.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:05 PM
Garbodor isn't so bad, actually. It has better Attack and better defenses than Scolipede. It has to use Gunk Shot as it's main STAB though, and 70% accuracy is not great. I'll come up later with a full analysis. These are my thoughts:

Garbodor: Low Tier
Scolipede: Low Tier
Amoonguss: High Tier

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 04:06 PM
How the hell is Amoonguss worthy of High Tier?

Apparently there are two "S"s. Why?

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Great bulk, it learns Toxic by level-up and thus it has the ability to stall, and workable Attack and Special Attack. If it learned Spore earlier, it could be Top Tier.

Shantae
09-05-2012, 04:21 PM
The Poison Type Pokemon in this region is really screwed up. C'mon, any of these pokes will NEVER reach to Top Tier or even High Tier (more likely).

Scolipede - Low Tier / or Mid Tier - You can find his pre-evolution Pokemon pretty early in game. The bottom line is it pretty handy for 3rd Gym. The reason why I think it should be Mid Tier because it has good speed. Plus it has decent attack stats and pretty decent movepool. Also is evolution line isn't that bad either. I honestly think it isn't a bad Poison Pokemon, but it better than that blasted Garbodor. In my opinion.

Garbodor - Bottom Tier - Oh god, this pokemon? Please, place in bottom tier. The reason to this is, it has bad Stats, bad movepool, and his looks, it pretty dang ugly. Eh, that's all.

Amoongus (It actually Amoonguss. You forgot to add another s) - Low Tier - This Pokemon is okay, but problem is it has bad speed stats. (and also what Zach said.) Again, there is better ingame Pokemon than this.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:23 PM
Amoonguss does have access to Payback to counter it's low Speed, though.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 04:24 PM
I already fixed that S, silly!

Ubers, it comes more than halfway through the game and is mediocre. Explain how it is near High-nearly-Top Tier worthy.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:31 PM
I didn't say it's Top Tier worthy. I said it's High Tier because it's bulky as hell, can hit from both sides, and it learns Toxic at Level 32, earlier than the other two. Sure it's moving in slowmotion, but you can find the Payback TM after getting Strength, and... yea.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 04:34 PM
High-nearly-Top Tier worthy.


If it learned Spore earlier, it could be Top Tier.

Try reading, next time.
There's no way a mediocre defensive Grass/Poison that joins right before Gym 5 is going in High Tier.
It's awful in the last three gyms, too.
Also, Payback is awful.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:37 PM
IF AMOONGUSS LEARNED SPORE EARLIER, THEN YES, IT PROBABLY COULD BE TOP TIER. Please read more carefully.
And I can't believe you screwed yourself by saying Amoonguss is a mediocre defensive Grass/Poison. Name another BW grass-type that does Amoonguss' job better.

http://www.2shared.com/document/dd9hO_V5/Poison-type_analysis.html
Here is my analysis of poison-types, GameFreak really screwed the poison-typing in gen 5.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 04:40 PM
I said "nearly". Please read more carefully.
Serperior, Lilligant, Whimsicott, Leavanny, Ferrothorn and Simisage are all better, but we'll leave that to the Grass thread.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 04:54 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAOMGICANTSTOPLA UGHINGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA ok I'll stop.

Nobody of all those grass-types you listed doesn't get Toxic by level-up.
I'm going to list their defenses:

Amoonguss: 114/70/80
Serperior: 75/95/95, HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT'S BETTER THAN AMOONGUSS?
Lilligant: 70/75/75, this really makes me lol.
Whimsicott: 60/85/75. Prankster is almost useless in-game.
Leavanny: 75/80/70. Leavanny is quad-weak to Fire and Flying.
Ferrothorn: 74/131/116. OK, you win here, but Ferrothorn is better built to be a spikes user, and he's quad-weak to Fire.
Simisage: 75/63/63. Another one that makes me lol.

I didn't ask you to name a better grass-type, I asked you to name another grass-type that learns Toxic by level-up and that sponge hits better(though I'll admit, Ferro is better than Amoonguss in this situation).

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 05:03 PM
You asked me to name something that did its job better. Its job is killing things. They are all better at killing things.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 05:06 PM
If you have never used Amoonguss then of course you say he should kill things. Even in-game you can stall things.

And if you really want to kill things, Amoonguss can set up with Growth.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 05:08 PM
Amoonguss doesn't learn Leech Seed. I think you're implying that it can. If you're not, you're awful at phrasing things.
You keep arguing that Payback is great. That means you're arguing that it's a good attacker. Payback isn't even that great, though.
There is no way it's worthy of High Tier.

UbersSuck20
09-05-2012, 05:10 PM
OK I have edited my post after checking Bulbapedia.

Payback is great on any slow sweeper/staller/whatever it's called that has a decent Attack stat. You keep saying Amoonguss is outclassed, but it's not true.

Uzi
09-05-2012, 07:24 PM
IF YOU THINK THAT AMOONGUSS IS GOOD QUIT POKEMON NOW.

If you seriously want to stall in game that is fine with me but playing a stall team is boring as hell especially in-game when you're playing against the world's greatest AI, Nintendo's AI. Stalling in-game has no merit, and will only make your playtime go up so you can brag about how long you've spent playing a children's role playing game where you illegally bet on **** fights.

>You keep saying Amoonguss is outclassed, but it's not true.

10/10 You trolled me hard. Amoonguss is possibly the worst grass type in the game, if you want to even give Serperior some credit. Amoonguss doesn't get leech seed, it comes really late, so you'll probably have your full team by then, did I mention that it comes late? That's important. Scolipede outclasses Amoonguss completely, and Dabottle was being kind by even putting them in the same tier.

Saying it has high defense doesn't mean ANYTHING, because you just want to one shot in-game, if you seriously want to play through dozens of turns to wittle something down to zero HP you need a new hobby. Payback isn't all that, it's a DECENT MOVE, but it's not going to do much of anything when you die. I'll give you Spore, Giga Drain, and Sludge Bomb as moves that even give me the slightest reason to use Amoonguss, and that's it.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Too bad it doesn't even get Spore without copious amounts of grinding.

Zachgoose
09-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Uzi summarized it very well.

I personally think that Amoonguss is a strong competitive Pokemon, but it is ultimately relatively inefficient to use ingame.

It comes late, has a small movepool, and has low damage. Plus, its main selling points, Regenerator and Spore, won't be available to you for most/all of the game.

Dragonite
09-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Darn it, I don't have time to read all of the other posts today.

I don't like any of the Poison types, although Scolipede has a decent stat spread, especially Speed, and has an amazing ability of Poison Point. As someone else said, it leans Megahorn which will probably take care of half of the Elite 4 and that underleveled Hyrdreigon of Ghetsis.

Amoongus I don't really care for. It evolves kind of late, but it also has a good ability of Effect Spore. I spend my Masterball on it, but that was a complete joke.

Garbodor: Not even going there. I don't care what its stats are or what moves it learns or its Ability (which is awfully gross too), but a Pokemon that came out of the garbage can in the school cafeteria automatically belongs in the Sewer Tier.

Shiningbolt
09-05-2012, 10:30 PM
And again I just have to agree with the list. While I don't really agree that Scolipede is mid, I can't see how it would be high. I'd say borderline, but we don't have that sort of rank. Garbodor is bad and Amoonguss needs Leech Seed.

Dabottle
09-05-2012, 10:38 PM
I might boost it to High, since it's much better than the other two.

Dragonite
09-05-2012, 11:04 PM
There are some types in Unova that have a lot of good members, and some that don't.

Poison is one of the types that don't. Therefore, the one at the top should be the one that sucks the least.

Shantae
09-05-2012, 11:08 PM
@Dragonite - Do you mean "Good Pokemon"?

Therefore, I agree to Bolt. Scolipede should be at least High Tier (Poision Type, not sure for Bug one) despite it only decent Poison Pokemon that has many potential (good speed, etc.) and it better than other 2 Poison pokes.

UbersSuck20
09-06-2012, 06:05 AM
Scolipede shouldn't be High tier, 90 Attack is just too low.