Black and White Type Tiering: Day 5.3 - Dragon.

[Dabottle]

Dragon's happening too. The rest of the types have more than three Pokémon to discuss (Dragon sort of has 5, but not really).

Vote for tomorrow's type here! (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHVRRFdoTTFVemtnTndxT3c3MlJ1U3c6M Q#gid=0) Just to clarify, previous votes do not carry over. If you don't state your username, I'm throwing the vote out.


Every day, we will be tiering the ingame utility of every Pokémon of a certain type, in relation to other Pokémon of that type. Each thread will last three days. You may debate the utility of each Pokémon as much as you wish in their thread.
At the end of the three day period, a finalised list will be drawn up with an explanation for each Pokémon's location.

Feel free to give suggestions! ^_^

Rules:
1. Provide an argument with your suggestion.
2. For version exclusives, assume you're playing the game they're in.
3. Read the section below.

Things to factor:


Stats.
Movepool.
Evolution level/method.
Availability.
Utility.
Gym and E4 matchups.



The Pokémon we will be evaluating this time are:


Haxorus.
Druddigon.
Hydreigon (Ha! Good luck evolving it!)
Reshiram.
Zekrom. (They're basically the same thing.)



Current Tier List:

Top Tier:
-Placeholder.-

High Tier:
Haxorus.
Druddigon.

Mid Tier:
Zekrom/Reshiram.

Low Tier:
-Placeholder.-

Bottom Tier:
Hydreigon.

[Dabottle]

Haxorus for High Tier...
Zek/Resh for Mid Tier.
Druddigon for Low Tier.
Hydreigon for Bottom Tier.

End of discussion. :/

[X!!]

Haxorus for Top Tier. It's the best Dragon-type choice for ingame gaming. It has the earliest appearance in B/W as an Axew and it evolves into Fraxure at level 38, and Haxorus at level 48. A really good Pokemon overall.

Zekrom and Reshiram for Mid Tier. You only get to use them at the end of the main game. Despite that, they're both really powerful and useful.

Druddigon and Hydreigon for Lower Tier. I don't really care for Druddigon and the problem with Hydreigon is the fact that it evolves at level 64.

[UbersSuck20]

Yes but Axew is still found really late.

[Zachgoose]

High tier:
Haxorus- Hey what's up I have incredible stats, movepool, and one shot everything. Its main draw back is that you can't get in until very late in the game.
Druddigon- No, I'm not crazy. Druddigon is incredible for ingame, and it is severely underrated. Heck, I might even consider placing it above Haxorus. Don't disregard it as useless until you try it. If you compare its stats to Haxorus, Haxorus outclasses it in almost every stat, most notably a huge base speed increase.
But, it has several perks that make it incredibly useful:
-It starts off fully evolved. This means that you're getting similar stats to Haxorus RIGHT OFF THE BAT as soon as you catch it. You don't have to train it to level 48 for it to be useful.
-It is in the Medium Fast experience group. Thus, it gains experience rapidly. The Haxorus line sits in the Slow experience group, meaning they will be a hindrance for that much longer.
-Great movepool. It learns several great moves early on by level up, and it can be provided with a Plethora of TMs. Dragon Claw, Crunch, Superpower, and Slash are good examples of this.
-Rough Skin. This is a great ability in general, and Druddigion is the only (somewhat) bulky Pokemon that gets it.
-More efficient than Haxorus. You can just pick one up around the same time as Haxorus, but the difference is that you can just pick it up in Dragonspiral Tower which you are required to do anyway, instead of going through an obnoxious sidequest to locate the cave that Axew is in.
Ultimately, if you plan to clearly the game quickly and efficiently, Druddigon is a very strong choice.

Mid tier:
Reshiram- Same thing as Zekrom except it's cuter so it gets the slot above it. Once again, still worth using for the two fights you have him.
Zekrom- Still has a nice butt.

Bottom tier:
Hydreigon- By the time this rolls around you should already have a fully established party. It is not worth the effort to train. Reshiram and Zekrom are simply more useful if for some reason you still don't have a Dragon type at this point.

[Shantae]

For these Dragon pokes, all of these Pokemon can be caught like much later in game. Axew (Haxorus) is an exception.

Haxorus - Obviously, High Tier. Even that, it the only Dragon Pokemon you can catch much earlier than other Dragon pokes in B/W. About Haxorus. It learns good moves, it has a good attack stats (but Defense and Sp-Defense maybe a problem) and his evolution stage's isn't that bad at all, as like Level 48.

Zekrom and Reshiram - Mid Tier /or Low Tier - They are only useful once you battle N and Ghetsis. Despite of them, they should be at least Mid Tier by how powerful they are.

Druddigon - Low Tier - I'll explain this short and sweet. This pokemon is joke, really bad speed stats and really no evolution chain. I have no arugements about this eh, bad Poke. Yeah, Low Tier is good placement for that Poke. (But hey, it's my opinion. Zach oppose it and I agree to him)

Hydreigon - Low Tier /or Bottom Tier - This a good Pokemon because it has good Special Attack, but the problem of Hydreigon is evolution chain at Level 64. Plus you have to find a Deino at Victory Road and train up and evolve at Level 64. That ridiculously late and, I have no problem it's either Bottom Tier or Low Tier.

[X!!]

Yes but Axew is still found really late.

But the others are found a lot later.

[Dabottle]

Still not good enough for Top Tier. In order for something to be in Top Tier, it must be significantly better than everything else. Haxorus is much better than the rest, but it's still not good enough.

[Zachgoose]

The controversial Druddigon. :D

It is basically very similar to Haxorus, except the difference is it requires no effort to train or locate, and is more useful immediately. Yes, if you're going to invest several hours training Haxorus it is more useful, but time is an important factor for tiering.

Stats:

Haxorus Base Stats: 76, 147, 90, 60, 70, 97
Druddigon Base Stats: 77, 120, 90, 60, 90, 48

As you can see, Druddigon's sick base 77 HP makes it way better than Haxorus. Yes, its speed stat is abysmal, and its attack is far lower. However, when you have that much raw power anyway, it doesn't make that large of a difference, as both of them will be one-shotting everything regardless.

Abilities:

Druddigon wins here. Rough Skin is a very strong ability. One hit of Rough Skin+Base 120 Attack is more damage than the same attack coming off of a base 147 stat.

Yes, both of Haxorus' abilities are good, but Rivalry is too unreliable, and Mold Breaker doesn't shine ingame either.

Movepool:

Druddigon gets Crunch and Superpower from level up which Haxorus doesn't, and it has a much larger TM Pool. However, Haxorus gets Dragon Dance, which more than likely much better than any sort of coverage that Druddigon provides.

Availability:

You can obtain both of them right at the same point in the story. But like I stated earlier, you don't have to waste time going far out of your way to get Druddigon. Another difference is that Druddigon is incredibly powerful the moment you get it. It has comparable stats to Haxorus. Haxorus.

For the majority of the time you're using it, you will have an Axew or a Fraxure instead of Haxorus, since Fraxure evolves at such a late level. If you compared Fraxure and Druddigon, Druddigon wins hands down.


Experience:

Druddigon gains experience 20% more quickly, which is a huge difference at lower Pokemon levels. The highest level you can find Axew at is 31, while you can find Druddigon at level 37. By the time you even reach level 48 to get Haxorus, Druddigon could already be a level 58. That is a huge difference in power. And of course if you factor in the Lucky Egg, this difference is increased even further.

I'd rather be one shotting Pokemon with a Druddigon's Dragon Claw the entire time rather than having to painstakingly train Axew from the 6th gym just to get the same effect. You're not even going to obtain your Haxorus until around the time you get to the Elite Four regardless. Unless you plan to solo the E4 with Haxorus, using Druddigon from the 6th gym onwards is simply more effective.

For all you Fire Emblem fans, think of it as a comparison between Titania and Oscar.

Titania is more useful for the majority of the game because she starts out at a higher level and her base stats are much better. Perhaps Oscar surpasses her by a slight amount once you've put in the experience to train him (Although this is not the case in FE10), but you could have given the experience to somebody else instead of Oscar and used Titania to still get the exact same effect.


Ulitmately, Druddigon is just as useful if not more useful than the Axew line for clearing the game. I would strongly recommend that everyone take this into consideration.

Heck, after writing this argument, I have convinced myself that Druddigon deserves the spot above Haxorus on high tier. You don't have to agree with that, but at least acknowledge that Druddigon is on a similar level to Haxorus.

Opinions?

[Dabottle]

Seth and Franz would have been a better comparison. -_- BEXP lowers Titania's utility.

Druddigon to the top of Mid Tier.

[Zachgoose]

Tower of Valni lowers Seth's utility even moreso

I want more Druddigon discussion though. :3

The rest of the list already seems to be settled. I obviously have a very high opinion of it and think it is more efficient than Haxorus even for clearing the main game, but most people seem to entirely disregard it as useless. Its current position is somewhat in the middle ground.

[Dragonite]

Version Mascots Zekrom and Reshiram, I don't wish to categorize them here. To me, they play much different roles in-game than the rest of them.

Hydreigon: I used this thing, and IT WAS AMAZING. Dragon Pulse + any other Special attack pwns all. BUT, discovery in Victory Road and not evolving until Level 64 is too late, even for someone who likes to train their Magikarps for ten levels without the EXP Share. (ME.) (However, I also like the pre evolution Zweilous.)

Haxorus: This thing thinks its a Rampardos, except it has really good speed and defenses and has two weaknesses instead of five. The only problem is that it doesn't reach its final evolution until Level 48, which is probably somewhere in the middle of the Pokemon League. But even still, Dragon Dance with either Outrage or Brick Break is probably enough to debilitate most/all of N and Ghetsis' team.

Druddigon: All I know about this thing is how annoying it is to fight in-game. However, should I reset my save file on Black, I would probably try using this thing. It hits like a Gyarados with moves like Outrage and Superpower, and has enough defense to take hits for a while. The only problem is its Speed, which means that it's more than likely going to attack last in battle. Oh, and its ability. Since most of the Trainers in the game don't like to think with their AI, Rough Skin is probably going to guarantee at least some damage every turn.

[Shiningbolt]

Hydreigon definitely deserves to be at the bottom. There's just no reason to wait until the Elite Four for a Pokemon that won't evolve until it's overleveled even compares to the huge level slope that happens there. Legendaries are useful for very few battles as you get them even later than Rayquaza in Emerald. Druddigon doesn't require evolving, so it's decent and Haxorus gets top because you can get Axel quite early for a Dragon type.