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View Full Version : Pokemon that we thought were awesome, but they suck. - Part 1



UbersSuck20
11-03-2012, 07:58 AM
There are some Pokemon that got some incredible hype at the beginning of Gen 5, only people realized that they were sucky...

#1: Ambipom

Why the hype?

With a great base 115 Speed coupled with a respectable base 100 Attack, it looked like Ambipom is going to be one of the best revenge killers of all UU, and even OU. It had Technician-boosted Fake Out, that could be further boosted by Normal Gem. Not only that, but it also had U-turn to gain momentum, as well as Low Sweep and Low Kick for hurting Snorlax hard.

What went wrong?

Let's face it, Ambipom has always been bad. Even with access to Low Kick, Rhyperior and bulky Steels laugh at it, and Ghost-types come in for free and dispatch it with Focus Blast/Hidden Power Fighting. Then, Mienshao, which also had access to Fake Out, came in UU, and Ambipom needed to run a Choice Band set to diferentiate itself from Mienshao. The release of Skill Link Cincinno does it no favors either. Personally, I think it's outclassed by both.

#2: Dusclops

Why the hype?

In Gen 4 Dusclops was outclassed by it's evolution, Dusknoir, which had 100 Attack, as well as slightly better defenses and the ability to run a SubPunch set. However, BW came and brought Dusclops the Eviolite, which boosted its defenses by 50%. With this item, Dusclops's already solid base 130 Defense and Special Defense were boosted to levels near that of Shuckle's.

What went wrong?

Dusclops lacked one thing all walls need: reliable recovery. It had to use Pain Split or a RestTalk set, which can be used as setup fodder for powerful sweepers, especially on the special side. Also, it has too bad Attack to deal damage, so it's forced to run Seismic Toss. Co***rigus' arrival in UU was probably the final nail in the coffin, though. Cofa also has great defenses, the special attack to actually damage foes, Haze and the ability to run a Nasty Plot or a Calm Mind set. In October 2012, Co***rigus was placed #24 in the UU usage, while Dusclops barely manages to stay there... Don't even think of using it in OU. If you want a bulky Ghost-type not named Jellicent, Co***rigus and Dusknoir are for you.

#3: Scrafty

Why the hype?

Scrafty had an amazing STAB combination only resisted by three Pokemon, as well as great defenses and access to Dragon Dance, to make it a potent sweeper. It also has access to Bulk Up to make it almost invincible on the physical side.

What went wrong?

It should have been obvious. Every one of Scrafty's good qualities is mitigated by another not-so-great quality. Great defenses? Terrible HP stat. Amazing STAB combination, coverage movepool, and access to Dragon Dance? Subpar Attack and abysmal Speed.
"But it can still Bulk Up!"
In a metagame filled with Hurricanes, Draco Meteors, VoltTurn, Terrakion, and rain-boosted Hydro Pumps? Yeah... good luck with that.

#4: Electivire(FailVire)

Why the hype?

Due to the enormous movepool Electivire has access to, including the elemental punches, as well as hitting 13 types out of 17 for super effective damage, it's clear it was overhyped at the beginning of DP. 123 Attack is nothing to scoff at either, and it also had Motor Drive for raising it's Speed and trying to sweep. Finally, Gyarados attracted Electric-type attacks like you wouldn't believe, and it looked like Electivire and Gyara were made one for each other. As such, a core named "GyaraVire" was invented, which was used by average players and by noobs to win battles. BW gave Electivire a better physical attack in the form of Wild Charge, which meant Electivire's weak STAB problem was now gone.

What went wrong?

Any bulky Pokemon with Earthquake means end-game for Electivire. There was a whole new generation of theoretically great Pokémon to have faffing about in low OU, and there was just no room for Electivire any more. But what has finally drove the nail in the coffin was Team Preview. With that, any Electric-type attacker could predict the opponent's switch to Electivire easily, and react accordingly. Now he's in RU, and I think Eelektross is better than Vire in the higher tiers, especially OU. Having no weaknesses, the ability to run a Coil + Thunder set or a Choice Specs set and better overall defenses... yea. At least Electivire manages to carve itself out a niche as the only real physical Electric-type. Only time will tell if it can even hang on to that, what with Luxray picking up Guts from Dream World and all.

Honorable Mentions(Fallen Stars)
#1: Dusknoir

Why the hype?

Dusclops acted as one of the premier spinblockers in ADV. In generation 4, Dusclops was overshadowed by its evolution, Dusknoir. With Gen 5, however, Eviolite did send Dusknoir's preevolution in UU, while Dusknoir fell into RU.

What happened?

To be honest, I don't know. Dusknoir's usage has suffered a lot due to people realizing how good Co***rigus is. Sure, Dusknoir is outclassed by Co***rigus as a wall, but Dusknoir can run a great SubPunch set, which is not outclassed by Golurk, because Dusknoir has only two weaknesses. However, Dusknoir is finally getting some use now that Co***rigus is locked in UU. It placed #12 in October 2012, higher than other Ghosts, like Spiritomb and Rotom.
However, it does have some fatal flaws: low HP stat, slower than other walls, and tons of moves wasted by its Speed and its Special Attack. The low base Speed and reliance on Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split means Taunt screws it over. What's more, should Dusknoir lack Earthquake, lots of fire-types can switch in for free and destroy Dusknoir with their powerful STAB moves.
However, I think Dusknoir needs more love even with the setbacks it faces this generation, and with the great support, it can be an unvalued Pokemon for your team.

Rocket
11-03-2012, 07:31 PM
I would honestly consider these pokemon the best in the game.Most of the time,they really help me.

UbersSuck20
11-03-2012, 08:21 PM
I would honestly consider these pokemon the best in the game.Most of the time,they really help me.

OK, please explain to me why would you ever use Ambipom.

Beat Up? Weavile does that better.
Fake Out? Mienshao does that better.
Low Sweep/Low Kick? It absolutely needs to run Jolly, and neutral 100 Attack means 85-90 Adamant Attack stat, which is waaaaaaaaaay too low to hurt bulky Steels and Rhyperior.
Any other double/multiple hitting-moves? Cincinno does that better.

Dusclops I can somewhat understand what do you mean, but in OU it's useful at what? RestTalk sets suck so bad due to the BW sleep mechanics. Co***rigus and Dusknoir can both run awesome sets in OU(standard wall for Cofa and SubPunch for Noir), and I had some teams with them which exceeded 1600 rating on Pokemon Showdown. I still can't believe they are so rarely seen, because they save my butt a lot of times.

Rocket
11-03-2012, 08:31 PM
OK, please explain to me why would you ever use Ambipom.

Beat Up? Weavile does that better.
Fake Out? Mienshao does that better.
Low Sweep/Low Kick? It absolutely needs to run Jolly, and neutral 100 Attack means 85-90 Adamant Attack stat, which is waaaaaaaaaay too low to hurt bulky Steels and Rhyperior.
Any other double/multiple hitting-moves? Cincinno does that better.

My bad,it was kind-of useful in HG/SS,but it is terrible after that.

UbersSuck20
11-03-2012, 08:40 PM
Oh yeah, I should also add FailVire. It's placed #85 in the OU usage as of October 2012, while Co***rigus is placed #118, and Dusknoir is only #134.

LovelyOshawott
11-03-2012, 08:43 PM
Ambipom is also a pain to get so that doesn't help.

Ice
11-03-2012, 10:12 PM
Oh yeah, I should also add FailVire. It's placed #85 in the OU usage as of October 2012, while Co***rigus is placed #118, and Dusknoir is only #134.
I found that Mixvire can actually be decent if played right, especially if you get off Motor Drive and it helped me fill the last spot on a team I used to use. But it's a bit situational and I certainly wouldn't have thought it'd be ahead of those two, especially with that big of a gap.


Ambipom is also a pain to get so that doesn't help.
How the hell is availability relevant? You can grab anything you want with simulators and most people use Pokegen for competitive wifi.

LovelyOshawott
11-03-2012, 10:33 PM
Some people have wifi so bad it barely works in the same room as the source.
Wait, that's me.

Ice
11-03-2012, 11:04 PM
And this is relevant how?

Dabottle
11-03-2012, 11:05 PM
And this is relevant how?

If anything, she's providing reasons not to Wi-Fi battle.

Rocket
11-03-2012, 11:19 PM
If anything, she's providing reasons not to Wi-Fi battle.

WI-fi is everything to me.Me and my friend Brandon,his sister Brandy,and my friend Andrew always meet at a hot dog place to do wi-fi battles.

Ice
11-03-2012, 11:28 PM
RS, that makes no sense. On a side note, sorry for kind of starting this off-topicness in one of the few decent threads in this board.

LovelyOshawott
11-03-2012, 11:42 PM
My wifi really is that bad and yes this is really off topic.

BreeZaps
11-04-2012, 12:22 AM
Let my talk about my Pokemon Absol. I got it from a egg starting off at Lv.1 and I was thinking. "Training this thing is going to be easy even with Super Luck." I was wrong after I took it off the XP Share, I tryed using it in battle. Boy did my absol fail. It always got knocked out. And me raging. What did we learn? Even if the pokemon looks cool it doesnt mean its a good pokemon. Like my Lv.100 Snivy and Dewott.
I know this has nonthing to do about the pokemon your talking about but I felt like saying something.

And a Luxray is a good pokemon to talk about. Luxrays are the slowest thunder type pokemon. It does have a impressive Base 120 Attack stat.
It has moves like Fire Fang and Ice Fang. I find this good but its only egg moves. That makes it hard knowing that my luxray not from a egg but from the wild.

UbersSuck20
11-07-2012, 07:56 AM
Let my talk about my Pokemon Absol. I got it from a egg starting off at Lv.1 and I was thinking. "Training this thing is going to be easy even with Super Luck." I was wrong after I took it off the XP Share, I tryed using it in battle. Boy did my absol fail. It always got knocked out. And me raging. What did we learn? Even if the pokemon looks cool it doesnt mean its a good pokemon. Like my Lv.100 Snivy and Dewott.
I know this has nonthing to do about the pokemon your talking about but I felt like saying something.

And a Luxray is a good pokemon to talk about. Luxrays are the slowest thunder type pokemon. It does have a impressive Base 120 Attack stat.
It has moves like Fire Fang and Ice Fang. I find this good but its only egg moves. That makes it hard knowing that my luxray not from a egg but from the wild.

Use a Swords Dance + Sucker Punch Absol in NU and THEN tell me it sucks.

BreeZaps
11-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Use a Swords Dance + Sucker Punch Absol in NU and THEN tell me it sucks.
My bad sorry. xD
But yes Swords Dance and Sucker Punch would work. I should try that some day.
Thank You for pointing that out US20!

Dragonite
11-07-2012, 09:19 PM
Zororark. It comes out looking like something else, right? Meaning you can put a Gengar in the 6 slot and take like zero damage, right?
Too bad its defenses are only slightly higher than Pikachu's. Granted, it's pretty useful in-game.

Zebstrika. They usually give us a halfway-decent Electric type early in the game that ISN'T an Emolga, right?
Same problems as the other physical Electric types above, Luxray and Electivire. And its defenses are about the same as Zoroark's, so having only one weakness doesn't matter because anything else will kill it anyway.

Meganium. It's a starter, so it ought to be decent, right?
Grass still has 5 weaknesses. The most powerful move it learns is Petal Dance, and maybe Earthquake, and Dragon Tail if you like that style of play; after that, nothing. Seed Bomb is move tutor/Egg, but 80 base power is nothing on WiFi. It's not very fast.In-game, it's weak to Falkner, Bugsy, Morty (because his Ghosts are also Poison), Bryce, Koga, Janine, Misty because most of her team weilds Ice Beam and outspeeds Meganium, Blaine, and can't do anything but sit there against the Sprout Tower, Clair, the Champion, and Red. But that's besides the point.

Rampardos. Attack higher than Deoxys ought to account for something, right?
Not if it's about as fast as a Machamp, has defense like Zoroark and Zebstrika and Stone Edge only hits 80% of the time anyway.

Any Steel/Rock type, and any Ground/Rock type.
Combining two types that are generally very defensive != a Pokemon that's even MORE defensive. Nobody really cares how high your defensive stats are if you take 4X damage to anything. Especially if you take 4X damage to TWO things. Ground and Fighting, Water and Rock, they're among the most common types in Pokemon.

Bricktoad
11-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Once upon a time, I thought that Maccargo was a good choice
I know some like it, but Its REALLY slow, weak to 4xWater and Ground, 2x Fighting
It has HORRIBLE HP, and pretty bad attack
the only particularly good thing about it is its defense, but it has bad special defense
And the only particularly useful move it learns is shell smash (which kills its defense, making it useless)
And with such bad attack stats I dont think your gonna get much in with a maccargo.

UbersSuck20
11-08-2012, 07:02 PM
Zororark. It comes out looking like something else, right? Meaning you can put a Gengar in the 6 slot and take like zero damage, right?
Too bad its defenses are only slightly higher than Pikachu's. Granted, it's pretty useful in-game.
Zoroark is a great Pokemon. I love luring Heatran/Scizor/Genesect in with a Choice Scarf Zoroark that hides secretly behind Jirachi/Weavile.
Zebstrika. They usually give us a halfway-decent Electric type early in the game that ISN'T an Emolga, right?
Same problems as the other physical Electric types above, Luxray and Electivire. And its defenses are about the same as Zoroark's, so having only one weakness doesn't matter because anything else will kill it anyway.
Zebstrika has one tool Luxray wishes it had: Overheat. Otherwise, I agree with you.
Meganium. It's a starter, so it ought to be decent, right?
Grass still has 5 weaknesses. The most powerful move it learns is Petal Dance, and maybe Earthquake, and Dragon Tail if you like that style of play; after that, nothing. Seed Bomb is move tutor/Egg, but 80 base power is nothing on WiFi. It's not very fast.In-game, it's weak to Falkner, Bugsy, Morty (because his Ghosts are also Poison), Bryce, Koga, Janine, Misty because most of her team weilds Ice Beam and outspeeds Meganium, Blaine, and can't do anything but sit there against the Sprout Tower, Clair, the Champion, and Red. But that's besides the point.
Meganium has decent defenses, but otherwise I agree with you.
Rampardos. Attack higher than Deoxys ought to account for something, right?
Not if it's about as fast as a Machamp, has defense like Zoroark and Zebstrika and Stone Edge only hits 80% of the time anyway.
I know it's overhyped, but Rampardos picked up it's new Sheer Force ability, and with a Life Orb, it can even become a special attacker.
Any Steel/Rock type, and any Ground/Rock type.
Combining two types that are generally very defensive != a Pokemon that's even MORE defensive. Nobody really cares how high your defensive stats are if you take 4X damage to anything. Especially if you take 4X damage to TWO things. Ground and Fighting, Water and Rock, they're among the most common types in Pokemon.
Rock/Ground is a good combination even if it's quad-weak to Grass and Water. Rhyperior is a good example.


@Bricktoag: I see your point, but Magcargo has one tool most sweepers would die for: Shell Smash. With that, it can outspeed 105+ speed Pokemon and be an effective sweeper in NU.

Dragonite
11-08-2012, 07:46 PM
Oh, I remember another one now: the big scary Charizard that's ridiculed in your current picture, between Stealth Rock and (on the GTS, anyway) Ancientpower. Having half your HP taken away just for switching in is the ugliest sight in all of video games.

I would say the Bug/Flying category, too, because they have the same problem, but I don't think any of them were supposed to be awesome to begin with. Except mmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeee Scyther.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Zoroark. though. At 60/60/60 defenses, that thing's probably going to be killed by an Earthquake or Flamethrower or whatever else hits it that isn't Psychic. 60/60/60 is Spidna's defensive line.

UbersSuck20
11-08-2012, 08:15 PM
Nite, a 4x weak pokemon to SR does not define a bad Pokemon.
Volcarona is a solid OU because it has Quiver Dance. Hell, Ho-oh is uber even if it's 4x weak to SR.

Dragonite
11-08-2012, 08:47 PM
Starting out with half your HP doesn't help anyone out. I don't think you understand how high and mighty I used to think Charizard was.

Volcarona has a mighty uphill battle using Quiver Dance if it starts out with half its HP. Especially if the opponent has Aqua Jet or something.

Dabottle
11-08-2012, 10:07 PM
Starting out with half your HP doesn't help anyone out. I don't think you understand how high and mighty I used to think Charizard was.

Volcarona has a mighty uphill battle using Quiver Dance if it starts out with half its HP. Especially if the opponent has Aqua Jet or something.

That's why spinners exist.
Like Delibird.

Ice
11-08-2012, 10:27 PM
That's why spinners exist.
Like Delibird.
But I like sending in Bug/Fires when there's Rocks up and a Pokemon with Aqua Jet out. =/

Umbrony
11-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Ninetails is an awesome Pokemon, and I love it's design, but it's not that good unless you're an advanced competitive battler. I can barely figure out how to use it if I were to make it a fire type on my team. =P I get the feeling it's awesome, but I just don't know what I'm doing... I get the feeling this Pokemon is meant to be a wall. Ice, LP, how can I fit this Pokemon into my team?
Same goes for Pidgeot. I've gotten into the habit of using Tailwind in double battles, and spamming Air Slash. Pidgeot isn't even a special attacker. It's Attack isnt even anything special, and with those low Defense stats, it can fall to almost any type of attack in one hit. I thought Pidgeot was the way to go in terms of flying types in wifi battles way back when, but now I see I'm an idiot for not using my Muscle Band Staraptor. =\

Dabottle
11-09-2012, 04:03 PM
Ninetales.*
Abuse the hell out of Drought.

Pidgeot's kind of ****.

Tainers14
11-09-2012, 05:33 PM
Let me clarify something about the x4 weakness to rocks. The reason why that bug/fire type is OU while stuff like Articuno, Vespiquen are NU is because, bulky pokemon that can wall REALLY well, are incredible right? The thing is, you are going to be switching in that pokemon many times throughout the battle. Bulky pokemon can't afford to have a x4 weakness to stealth rock because they will only be able to come in to the battle a limited amount of times.

The bug/fire pokemon is a late game sweeper, meaning that it should only come in ONCE at the end to clean up the other team. doesn't really matter if it's going to lose 50 % of its health because it's not gonna get touched if the trainer knows what he or she is doing. The only down side to losing 50% of your health to rocks, is that Life Orb makes it so it can only get in 5 hits, 6 with the correct IVs. And if you send in the bug/fire type when the other team still has priority that is alive, you don't deserve to win.

Now back to the main topic, I've been playing 5th gen competitively ever since the Japanese release of B/W, so I've seen just about all the new 5th gen pokemon in OU. What I am most surprised about being not OU is Whimsicott. This pokemon can shut down any sweeper as long as the trainer has half a brain. It gets completely walled by grass types, and everyone and their mothers uses ferrothorn so it basically becomes useless when ferro comes in. Still provides insane utility to a team.

UbersSuck20
11-09-2012, 05:58 PM
Ninetales.*
Abuse the hell out of Drought.

Pidgeot's kind of ****.

Work Up made Pidgeot usable in NU. DP Pidgeot sucked, yeah. But with Work Up he can finally run a decent mixed sweeper set with Brave Bird, Roost and Heat Wave.

Ice
11-10-2012, 12:12 AM
Kind of want to try Pidgeot now. I need to play more NU.

Also, Ninetales is a sun abuser with Drought, Emily. You can use a defensive set but it depends on what you need and want.

UbersSuck20
11-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Ninetales can also use a decent Nasty Plot set.