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Zeus
05-27-2008, 04:53 AM
Salamence




http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn107/TeamUber_album/Pokemon%20Analysis%20Art/Salamence.png





Specs Mence

Salamence @ Choice Specs
Trait: Intimidate
6 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
Rash (+SpA, -Att)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake / Hydro Pump / Hidden Power Ground

The very popular and standard SpecsMence. Earthquake is recommended over Hydro Pump and Hidden Power Ground because it lets Salamence 1hko or 2hko pokemon that you will use a ground attack on, Heatran / Tentacruel / Empoleon. Draco Meteor is Salamence's single most powerful move without any setup, setting the tone early. Dragon Pulse is meant for late game, to diminish the remains after Draco Meteor.

Dragon Dance Mence

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
220 Att / 252 Spe / 32 SpAtt
Adamant (+Att, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Stone Edge

The classic late game sweeper that is DD Mence. Once again, Salamence's type combination of moves is outstanding. With the new addition of Outrage from Platinum, Salamence will be a dangerous threat. The EVs given grant you 270 which is enough to outspeed Adamant Heracross (269). Unlike SpecsMence, Blissey will be facing a much bigger threat in DD Mence. In the last slot, Stone Edge can be equipped especially to take on Gyarados and Zapdos. Or Fire Blast to take on Skarmory and Forretress better, whom Skarmory may wall and phaze you away otherwise.

Band Mence

Salamence @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Att, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw

Salamence also gained Aqua Tail in Platinum. Aqua Tail enables Salamence to 2hko Hippowdon and Gliscor without getting stuck into Outrage, a great way to lure those two in and take them out in 2 shots. The 4th slot is simply just filler since Aqua Tail negates the usefulness of certain moves. However, Earthquake can still be used to ohko Tyranitar and hit Metagross. Stone Edge is mainly for Zapdos and Gyarados, but that's if you have severe problems with them and need the 1hko instead of the 2hko when using Outrage. If none of those moves prove useful to you, and/or if you find the fact that getting locked into Outrage early can get annoying, Dragon Claw is optional too.

Mix Mence

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
84 Att / 216 SpA / 208 Spe
Rash (+SpA, -SpD)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage / Roost

Do I have to mention the move type combination anymore? No, we all know it's amazing. This breaks stall into shreds, not much can take on Mix Mence. Draco Meteor sets the tone early capable of denting any physical wall thinking of a physical varient. Outrage does more to Cresselia and Blissey than either Brick Break or Crunch, and unlike the other two, has a high chance to ko them on the switch with Draco Meteor and Stealth Rock. That said, Earthquake gets the mention over Brick Break to get the greater damage on Heatran and still 2hkos Tyranitar. Roost is an option to heal itself up to cause more threatening damage later on. If any move gets replaced by Roost it would probably be Outrage.

The Speed EV's reach 288 which outspeeds Max Speed Jolly Gyarados.



Wish Mence

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
212 HP / 174 Def / 124 Spe
Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Claw
- Flamethrower

Ah yes, the novelty Wish Mence. With the combination of Wish and Protect, you'll be scouting your opponent's possible Choice item, gaining HP from Leftovers, and supporting Wish to itself or for its teammates. Now for Salamence's attacking moves, you'd want to have the safest moves possible. Dragon Claw is better than Dragon Pulse due to its Attack stat being higher than its Special Attack stat. And it's better than Draco Meteor because the SpA drop really isn't worth it for Wish Mence if you have to stop CM Mismagius. Flamethrower is over Fire Blast for, obviously, the greater accuracy. Flamethrower is really the better option than Earthquake. Sure Heatran walls this set, but it's "the lesser of two evils" really. Would you rather get walled by Skarmory and Bronzong, or just Heatran? Also to the fact that against Heatran you can scout it's possible Choice item and then switch to a counter.

Now for the EV spread, the speed gives Salamence 240 speed which is enough to outspeed Adamant Breloom (239). Of course you can adjust the EVs for you to outspeed other threats, maybe bring the speed to 244. However, Wish is a better function for pokemon who aren't wrecked by Stealth Rock, such as Vaporeon. But it can be a great pokemon with Rapid Spin support, either Forretress or Starmie, since Salamence covers Forretress' only weakness of Fire, and Starmie counters two major threats to Wish Mence; Infernape and Gyarados.

Other Options

You can equip Choice Scarf on just about any of Salamence's offensive sets. If you want a more bulky DD Mence, you can give it this EV spread: 214 HP / 252 Att / 44 Spe @ Jolly nature. For an even more defensive Salamence, you can use a Sub / Toxic stalling moveset, however it's better used for a pokemon with a more efficient Trait (such as Pressure).

Counters

Special Varients: Blissey is the most efficient counter. Calm natured Cresselia functions nicely as well. Empoleon gets a mention due to resisting Dragon and Water and being only neutral to Fire. Earthquake can 2hko though.

Physical Varients: Due to Outrage's debut into Platinum, the counters are suddenly decreased. Hippowdon still takes physical varients well and Slack Offs the damage or hits back with Ice Fang. Cresselia is once again a viable counter with superb Defenses and the existence of Ice Beam. Bronzong is probably the most notable counter, being resistant to Outrage and KO back with Gyro Ball, possibly powered by a Macho Brace or Choice Band. Vaporeon gets decent mentions as well, but it's really hard to switch into Choice Band Outrage rather than a DD.

Any varient: Donphan/Mamoswine/Weavile revenge kills any varient with Ice Shard.

zelda_master_timmy
05-27-2008, 06:15 AM
Everything looks nice, ill get more in-depth and add anything I see wrong.

So far so good :wink:

Zeus
05-27-2008, 07:15 AM
Thanks ZMT, can't wait until you start on your first Analysis.

Farmer
05-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Very nice zeusy no toxic stall set ;_;.

Zeus
05-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Very nice zeusy no toxic stall set ;_;.

lol alright. I've been seeing it quite often from the regulars on Marriland. I'll still keep it on Other Options.

XxSalientxX
06-02-2008, 09:02 AM
the first one is like pwnage to me..imma try it out or maybe toy mence.

PokeNeo
06-24-2008, 12:32 PM
yay salamence,but bulky mence?

soccerforward29
06-25-2008, 04:37 PM
On wish mence toxic is an option over flamethrower and roost is an option over protect.

Bulky mence is sexy, that should be an option. Also, you can make draco meteor an option on dd mence. I have been sing that set lately and it is very effective for gliscor.

mosers15
06-25-2008, 05:47 PM
so is hydro pump lol

salamence has a lot of options...

Chet
06-25-2008, 07:45 PM
this the wish mence i used vs zmt

Salamence @ Leftovers
212 Hp 84 Spe 152 Att 62 Def
Jolly
-Protect
-Wish
-Flamethrower
-Earthquake/Dragon claw

I used this guy just because lucario was so common, and eq ohkos it, f-thrower so you wont be walled by steel, but dragon claw is overall the best option, it really depends what your team needs, 84 spe at jolly nature gives him 280 speed

PokeNeo
06-25-2008, 10:37 PM
On wish mence toxic is an option over flamethrower and roost is an option over protect.

Bulky mence is sexy, that should be an option. Also, you can make draco meteor an option on dd mence. I have been sing that set lately and it is very effective for gliscor.i completely agree.and i seriously also need this set.

PidgeyFTW
06-26-2008, 03:08 PM
No mention of Dragon Rush on the CB/DD set for extra power (meh it doesn't do much that's really significant except 2HKOing a bold 252/108 Cress after SR damage kicks in)?

For other EV spreads on Mcmence I believe a 80 Atk/252 SpAtk/176 still manages to 2HKO Blissey while outspeeding gaycario.

Wishroost is also very viable on Wishmence.

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
212 HP / 160 Def / 136 Spe
Bold (+Def, -SpAtk)
- Wish
- Protect/Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower

Outspeeds Hera because Hera can 2HKO with CB Stone Edge. You could also run Impish and Dragon Claw/EQ. Eh whatever.

But overall great analysis (all of these were just nitpicks).

PokeNeo
06-27-2008, 10:16 PM
salamence@choice scarf
intimidate
252 atk/252 spd/6 sp atk
adamant/jolly
-dragon claw/dragon rush
-eq
-stone edge
-fire blast

ip3wna11n00bs
07-01-2008, 04:36 AM
Great analysis Zeus, couldn't have done it any better. Hey ZMT, you probably don't remember me but I'm y0ug0tserv3d from Youtube. I asked you for help on a Dragonite build and I owned with it :).

The Shadow Projekt
12-23-2008, 11:20 PM
Here is a little mence set I'm gonna use in a future vid. A little gift from TSP fitting for the holidays.

TSP's Liek Chomp Mence

Salamence @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 120 HP / 56 Atk. / 124 Def. / 128 Sp.Def. / 82 Spd.
Nature: Adamant (+ Atk, - Sp.Def.)
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance

A bit of a doozy for an EV spread isn't it. Well if we compare the stats of this set and the typical 6/252/252 set we get from the SD chomp set (using max IV's for both.) then we get something a little like this.

Cheapy McBastard SD Chomp
HP: 358
Atk: 359
Def: 226
Sp.Atk: 196
Sp.Def: 206
Spd: 333

Awesome McUber TSP Mence
HP: 361
Atk: 352
Def: 227
Sp.Atk: 230
Sp.Def: 228
Spd: 256

Mence Cons:

- Takes 25% instead of 6.25% of max HP to Stealth Rock. (Which could completely cripple the idea of the set if you don't pack a spinner or send it in before Stealth Rock is set. But since many players lead off doing so it will prove difficult to do such.)

- Doesn't have Ground STAB. (Which is also another big weakness it has when it tries to mimic is Uber Tier counterpart. So Earthquake doesn't do as much but still provides the same "Fire / Ground / Dragon Coverage."

- Not immune to Thunder Wave. :(

- It is slower and packs less attacking strength. (Which are both made up through Dragon Dance.)

Mence Pros:

- Intimidate (Which in my opinion is so much better than Sand Veil because it adds to Mence's durability. Not completely making up for the Stealth Rock weakness but it's a start.)

- Decent Resistances: Being able to resist Water, Grass, and Fighting as well as have a Ground Immunity is pretty decent in my opinion.

- Dragon Dance (This move allows Mence to pump up its Speed futher than the pathetic sand dragon could go after using it just once.)

- IT"S LEGAL (So suck on that Smogon, Metagame, and All You Other Chomp Lieking Bastards. ^_^)

Closing Thoughts:

The 56 Attack EV's allow you to hit a Magic Number of 352 as 52 Attack EV's Hit 350 (According to Shoddy Team-Builder.)

The 82 Speed EV's allow you to hit 256 Speed which enables Mence to outrun base 125 Speed Pokemon such as Weavile, and Swellow.

Help me test this set out and let me know what you think, thanks for reading and happy holidays from all of us at Teamuber.

Kuja20
12-23-2008, 11:26 PM
Thats just amazing you always find a way to outdo yourself. Ima use this mence myself, me thinks

Zeus
12-24-2008, 12:00 AM
256 Speed? The speed should be increased a little better. The purpose of the Speed is to outspeed Weavile after a DD you say, but it has Ice Shard negating the usefulness of the Speed. 256 is simply not a good set Speed at the start. I'd personally boost the Speed to 270, to outspeed Heracross as well as Adamant Scarf versions after a DD. Getting to 280 outruns Lucario, but with the rise of Jolly Ice Punch Cario theres not much point in doing this, plus you have the Yache Berry. I think Roost can be slashed next to Fire Fang as well. With Skymin in Ubers, setting the Speed to 259 (outpseeding Skymin after a DD) would be pretty useless as well but if you want to use it in Ubers for some reason then that's a good set speed to fit in more bulk, but Yache should be replaced with Hablan Berry, Dragon resist berry, as the majority of moves are Dragon over Ice.

But I guess this set is more of a "theme?" per say.

I'll just simply add on to your spread. Changes in bold.

120 HP / 56 Atk. / 124 Def. / 74 Sp.Def. / 136 Spd

Best I can do without revamping your entire spread.

Zeus
12-24-2008, 12:09 AM
im gonna edit the Salamence analysis since i probably should with Platinum in play

Zeus
12-24-2008, 01:05 AM
updated and also for post count

The Shadow Projekt
12-24-2008, 01:06 AM
Points well taken Zeus take into consideration it took me like 10 minutes of half-assed thought into this analysis.