PDA

View Full Version : Empoleon Analysis



Pimplup
08-24-2008, 01:02 AM
I know this is reserved but I don't know when that guy will post his analysis...

This is my first analysis here so bear with me.


Empoleon

http://www.pokebip.com/pokemon/pokedex/images/sugimori/395.png

Regular ol' Penguin

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Def
Nature: Calm (+ Sp.Def, - Atk.) / Modest (+ Sp.Def, - Atk.)
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Stealth Rock / Grass Knot / HP [Ground / Electric]
- Yawn / Roar / Stealth Rock

This penguin will stop many special attacks considering that it has over 10 resistances with it's Water / Steel typing. Use this to hit foes with STAB Surf or Hydro Pump, take out Dragons and Flyers with Ice Beam or Blizzard, Setting up Stealth Rock is also a nice possibility or you can have Grass Knot or HP Ground or Electric if certain foes bother you such as Swampert, Magnezone, Gyarados, or Heatran. If you want 3 attacking moves and the ability to set up Stealth Rock you can sacrifice Roar or Yawn.


ToxicStall

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 6 Sp.Atck / 252 Sp.Def
Nature: Calm (+Sp. Def, -Atck)
-Protect
-Toxic
-Surf / Brine
-Ice Beam

The point of this set is to pretty much stall the opponent as best you can and wall at the same time. The idea is to switch it in on something safely with its vast amount of resistances. Then you Toxic the switch(or it for that matter). Then with Protect you can get Lefties recovery, all while chipping away the opponents HP.

The next 2 slots are self explanatory, they provide great STAB and coverage for Empoleon. The question is, Surf or Brine?? Well, if you stall it well enough, after it drops to under 50% you can use Brine to finish it off(130 BP+STAB=195 Damage!!). Surf is for better damage really, just to finish those Pesky walls(and Tran) earlier.

To get a scope on how good this is, just think this. It takes a dismal 47% from SpecsMence's HP Ground 70 and can fire an Ice Beam back 8) .



Empslowleon

Empoleon @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 58 Atk / 200 Sp.Def
Nature: Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd.)
-Swords Dance
-Avalanche
-Aqua Jet / Waterfall
-Drill Peck / Pluck / Earthquake

This set is literally designed to make use of Empoleon's low speed. With Sassy Nature and a 0 IV it reaches 112 Speed, perfect for making use of Avalanche. On Empoleon, you should always max HP, then get to the Sp.Def, and then to everything else. With those EV's it reaches 222 Attack and 316 Special Defense, still with the ability to wall. After an SD it caps up to 444 Attack, a great stat to work with...

After you SD you can sweep with Avalanche as it goes last. Now, the next slot has 2 great choices. Aqua Jet can get you a fast and reliable hit when you need it which is why it's recommended. Waterfall is also a great STAB and takes more of a chunk of HP than Aqua Jet, but will never get Empoleon out of a corner.

Drill Peck is for the Fighting types that may annoy you, but you'll most likely be slower anyway :? . Pluck can get you berry and help you in a bad situation but isn't always the best option. EQ is great for other Empoleons who would otherwise wall you so your choice on which move you use.



Trick Room Emperor

Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def
IV Spread: 31 / odd / 31 / 30 / 31 / 3
Nature: Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd.)
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric
-Yawn / Stealth Rock

With it's low speed, Empoleon is a great candidate for TR Sweeping. With Sassy Nature and a 3 IV it reaches 115 Speed, perfect for making use of TR. Surf and Hydro Pump are self-explanatory, Hydro Pump for more power at the cost of accuracy and Surf a little less power but more accuracy, making Surf the better candidate.

Now the question is, why HP Electric?? Well, now that Empoleon is faster than pretty much everything else, it can take on the likes of Gyara, Vaporen, and other Empoleon with HP Electric, scoring huge chunks of damage.

The last slot is all based on personal preference. If you want to Pseudo-Haze, then you Yawn to get that Pokemon out of there. SR is there for the benefit of a quick lay down of entry hazards, but with all of the suicide leads out there now, you might have your Zong setting up SR and then TR which is why Yawn is preferred.



Sub Petaya Torrent Abuse

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 28 HP / 12 Def. / 252 Sp.Atk / 216 Speed
Nature: Modest (+ Sp. Atk, - Atk.)
-Agility
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam / Grass Knot
-Substitute

After this thing sets up, it's ready to slaughter anything in its path. Empoleon resists nearly every priority move, has an amazing Special Attack stat (in terms of non-Uber Waters, only Omastar, Gorebyss, and Clamperl beat it), and Torrent to sweep with. Agility fixes its Speed, getting it above Scarfed neutral-natured base 90s like Porygon-Z and Lucario. From there, it can sub 3 times and activate Torrent and Petaya Berry at the same time.

Boosted Hydro Pump will always OHKO bulky Garchomp, can 2HKO Bold Blissey (48-57%), OHKOs Bronzong, and OHKOs Dusknoir and Salamence switching into Stealth Rock (though Empoleon's always faster than both after a boost anyway). Boosted Hydro Pump achieves 75% of what unboosted Ice Beam does on Grass-types, making Ice Beam less necessary and Grass Knot the ideal choice. Surf still can do 40% to Blissey (meaning Empoleon will win if Blissey lacks Seismic Toss or Thunderbolt) and 2HKOs on the above Pokemon should be sufficient. Ice Beam should be paired up with Surf while Grass Knot goes with Hydro Pump. It all depends on personal preference...

Most words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.


Specs Emperor
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Speed
Nature: Modest (+ Sp. Atk, - Atk.) / Timid (+ Spd, - Atk.)
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power [Ground]

With its above average defenses and massive amounts of resistances, Empoleon can switch in easily, making it a natural candidate for Choice Specs. Hydro Pump scores an OHKO on Magnezone, but you have HP Ground so it's not really needed. Surf is a better option because of the better accuracy. Ice Beam and Grass Knot are standard, taking out Grass and Water-type switch-ins. With Choice Specs, Grass Knot can even 2HKO Gyara!!

Hidden Power Ground OHKOs Magnezone, may 2HKO Lanturn, and hits enemy Empoleon. So it's a great filler in the last slot.

Some words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.



Real Penguins Use Swords
Empoleon @ Lefotvers / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
Nature: Adamant (+ Atck, - Sp. Atck)
-Swords Dance
-Aqua Jet
-Drill Peck
-Earthquake / Avalanche

The idea here is to Swords Dance, then use the surprise value and Empoleon's overall bulkiness to get in another Swords Dance if possible. Then, you may proceed to own things with STAB Aqua Jet from 894 Attack (assuming you get two boosts). Though the idea may seem somewhat of a novelty, it is actually a very viable option.

Ludicolo gets annihilated by Drill Peck, Lanturn and Magnezone are beaten with Earthquake, Dugtrio falls to an Aqua Jet, and Regice just can't do enough damage in time to stop Empoleon's sweep. Magnezone often invests Speed to beat Skarmory, so it might be faster than Empoleon. Either faint it before pulling this off or predict its switch-in and use Earthquake.

Drill Peck is the primary option here for hitting Heracross and Breloom on the switch. If you're scared of Salamence, Avalanche should beat it, and Empoleon won't mind the negative priority with its low Speed anyway. EQ
helps against more of its threats, remember this.

Leftovers is the better item choice here; with Empoleon's massive defenses and resistances, Lefties makes it a hard Poke to tackle. Life Orb is necessary for some KO's though(Mainly Blissey).

Most words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.



Other Options

Substitute: Can work well instead of Protect on ToxicStall because it can take more hits.

Aqua Ring: Can work well in the ToxicStall set by getting more HP, but you lose a moveslot...

Captivate: Can work awesome in the first 3 sets by softening up Special Blows, but only works on opposite gender :? .

Sleep Talk: Viable on all sets because of the consistency of sleep moves, can screw over the opponent in many cases.


Counters

Any physically based Fighting type Pokemon really. Bring in RestTalk Machamp and you should get by fine, Empoleon can't get a KO in by the time you Dynamic Punch it away...


Opinion

Well, the metagame is more offensive now, the ToxicStall set was created back during the stallish metagame. Even though Empoleon can't keep up as well as other walls in OU, it can still be a formidable wall in BL.
That's why there have been breaches to make a more offensive set. I think Empoleon can do this as well as demonstrated in the other sets.

That finishes up all of what my favorite Pokemon's evolution can do, I hope you guys use him/her more, it's a great Pokemon :) .

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 01:16 AM
It would be more accepted if you posted more sets.

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 01:26 AM
It would be more accepted if you posted more sets.
Thanks, but I don't really have any more sets. There is one, but I think it's on Smogon's analysis, I can check it...
I'll add another set...

i am cool
08-24-2008, 02:36 AM
specs empoleon, agility sub, agility 3 moves, band, sword dance, add those please, btw welcome it's good for ur first analisis oh and a picture of the penguin would be nice

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 02:54 AM
specs empoleon, agility sub, agility 3 moves, band, sword dance, add those please, btw welcome it's good for ur first analisis oh and a picture of the penguin would be nice
But they're in the Smogon analysis, am I allowed to do that?? I already had the picture too o_0... Added another set, but will do as you say...

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 03:01 AM
specs empoleon, agility sub, agility 3 moves, band, sword dance, add those please, btw welcome it's good for ur first analisis oh and a picture of the penguin would be nice
But they're in the Smogon analysis, am I allowed to do that?? I already had the picture too o_0... Added another set, but will do as you say...

We all do it because they have the "standard" sets meaning almost everyone uses them.

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 03:18 AM
[quote="i am cool":25z583qj]specs empoleon, agility sub, agility 3 moves, band, sword dance, add those please, btw welcome it's good for ur first analisis oh and a picture of the penguin would be nice
But they're in the Smogon analysis, am I allowed to do that?? I already had the picture too o_0... Added another set, but will do as you say...

We all do it because they have the "standard" sets meaning almost everyone uses them.[/quote:25z583qj]
OK added 2 new sets then, thanks guys :) .

EDIT: I NEED A MOD TO HELP ME. WITH THIS DANG LAPTOP I'M DELETING THINGS I DON'T MEAN TO :( . PLEASE HELP ME GET MY 1ST SET BACK :oops: . Thank You.

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 03:36 AM
What was your first set, the toxi-stall one? Well best bet is just re-doing it or you can PM the EV's and Moveset to me and i'll edit your post and put it on there.

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 03:44 AM
What was your first set, the toxi-stall one? Well best bet is just re-doing it or you can PM the EV's and Moveset to me and i'll edit your post and put it on there.
Yep, that's the one. The main thing I'm worried about is the description and calcs. I think I'll PM you because you can make a good description and sell the set(that's why I'm bummed, how are people gonna like it without a good description. I also don't have time atm...

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 03:45 AM
What was your first set, the toxi-stall one? Well best bet is just re-doing it or you can PM the EV's and Moveset to me and i'll edit your post and put it on there.
Yep, that's the one. The main thing I'm worried about is the description and calcs. I think I'll PM you because you can make a good description and sell the set(that's why I'm bummed, how are people gonna like it without a good description. I also don't have time atm...

When I figure out I get the PM i'll work on it.

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 03:48 AM
[quote="The Shadow Projekt":16p38as4]What was your first set, the toxi-stall one? Well best bet is just re-doing it or you can PM the EV's and Moveset to me and i'll edit your post and put it on there.
Yep, that's the one. The main thing I'm worried about is the description and calcs. I think I'll PM you because you can make a good description and sell the set(that's why I'm bummed, how are people gonna like it without a good description. I also don't have time atm...

When I figure out I get the PM i'll work on it.[/quote:16p38as4]
OK, I'll PM you then...

Spannertastic
08-24-2008, 03:49 AM
I just fixed up the SD set so this looks sortof completed to the untrained eye.
You're free to finish it when you want to TSP or if you run out of time just give me a holla and I'll do it.

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 03:52 AM
I just fixed up the SD set so this looks sortof completed to the untrained eye.
You're free to finish it when you want to TSP or if you run out of time just give me a holla and I'll do it.

Sure thing.

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 03:54 AM
I just fixed up the SD set so this looks sortof completed to the untrained eye.
You're free to finish it when you want to TSP or if you run out of time just give me a holla and I'll do it.
Man, you screwed up my name ;) . JK, it's pretty cool.

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 04:10 AM
*Added Standard Special Wall Set Titled "Regular Ol' Penguin"*

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 04:15 AM
*Added Standard Special Wall Set Titled "Regular Ol' Penguin"*
Good, completely forgot to put it on, but don't forget ToxicStall.

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 05:08 AM
There I finished helping out with this analysis. *Added Toxi-Stall Set, also thinks maybe I should have done Empoleon* <3

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 05:15 AM
There I finished helping out with this analysis. *Added Toxi-Stall Set, also thinks maybe I should have done Empoleon* <3
LOL, just finished by putting the SD set up, but TR is next tomorrow. Thanks for Helping :D !!

EDIT: You didn't even add the ToxicStall set for me... Don't try to get off without me noticing :P .

The Shadow Projekt
08-24-2008, 06:41 AM
There I finished helping out with this analysis. *Added Toxi-Stall Set, also thinks maybe I should have done Empoleon* <3
LOL, just finished by putting the SD set up, but TR is next tomorrow. Thanks for Helping :D !!

EDIT: You didn't even add the ToxicStall set for me... Don't try to get off without me noticing :P .

I actually did add the toxi stall set, but I guess it didnt notice it. I even added on to the simple set you gave me by adding Brine and Hydro Pump as additional options.

*Brine getting base 130 power when a foe's HP is less than half.*

I even took the liberty of finding a better pic. I guess it didnt get it. :roll: Oh well im not putting myself through the struggle of doing it again tho. It's "your" analysis finish it. ^_^

Statigar
08-24-2008, 02:38 PM
Excellent work Pimplup and TSP

Pimplup
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Excellent work Pimplup and TSP
Thank you, for some reason, the images I put in, aren't appearing according to both TSP and i am cool. Wonder why...

EDIT: My analysis is done, added TR set and ToxicStall. Enjoy :D !!

Chris
10-12-2008, 07:08 AM
This is my first analysis here so bear with me. Wow, a lot of this looks familiar. I see you have a very similar writing style to me. Oh, wait, all of the good sets are taken straight from my analysis. Well, at least you credited the site I put it on. Better than some people that take my work.


Empoleon

http&#58;//www&#46;pokebip&#46;com/pokemon/pokedex/images/sugimori/395&#46;png

Regular ol' Penguin

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Def
Nature: Calm (+ Sp.Def, - Atk.) / Modest (+ Sp.Def, - Atk.)
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Stealth Rock / Grass Knot / HP [Ground / Electric]
- Yawn / Roar / Stealth Rock

There's a word for this kind of set: Slashitis. You're basically saying "pick any of Empoleon's good moves and USE THEM!". There's no point to analyses if you do this, they could use a pokedex. You need to say why some moves are better than others!


ToxicStall

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 6 Sp.Atck / 252 Sp.Def
Nature: Calm (+Sp. Def, -Atck)
-Protect
-Toxic
-Surf / Brine
-Ice Beam

It is 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ground, you did your calculation wrong. Might have forgotten a Modest nature.

This set is largely bad as Protect gives your opponent time to set up, and with Empoleon's Ground and Fighting weakness this is never good. Heracross can come in on Toxic and **** your team. Brine is also horrible (hint: you have to get your opponent to low health before you can use it, and that's tricky.)

Empslowleon

Empoleon @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 58 Atk / 200 Sp.Def
Nature: Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd.)
-Swords Dance
-Avalanche
-Aqua Jet / Waterfall
-Drill Peck / Pluck / Earthquak

Wow, this is starting to resemble something I know. Anyway, this set doesn't take advantage of Empoleon's low Speed, it just ignores it. Low speed doesn't help it, it just doesn't hinder it.

Trick Room Emperor

Empoleon @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def
IV Spread: 31 / odd / 31 / 30 / 31 / 3
Nature: Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd.)
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric
-Yawn / Stealth Rock

No problems, except you want Grass Knot there for Water types that aren't Vaporeon or Gyarados, as they all take more damage from it.


Sub Petaya Torrent Abuse

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 28 HP / 12 Def. / 252 Sp.Atk / 216 Speed
Nature: Modest (+ Sp. Atk, - Atk.)
-Agility
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam / Grass Knot
-Substitute


Most words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.

Hey, next time it'd be great if you could like ask me or something.


Specs Emperor
Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Speed
Nature: Modest (+ Sp. Atk, - Atk.) / Timid (+ Spd, - Atk.)
-Surf / Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power [Ground]


Some words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.

No problems here. You rewrote it more plus the set is kind of obvious.

Real Penguins Use Swords
Empoleon @ Lefotvers / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
Nature: Adamant (+ Atck, - Sp. Atck)
-Swords Dance
-Aqua Jet
-Drill Peck
-Earthquake / Avalanche

Most words are from Smogon but I changed the sentences I didn't like, kept the ones I did.

How is this at all different than the set above? This one is better as it uses less Speed, but otherwise it's the same thing.


I hope you appreciated my help.

Kuja20
10-13-2008, 09:49 AM
Chris all i see you doing here is critizing the hard work that our hard workers have been putting in. You want to try and do the same? Come up with new sets and rework current ones and make them better? Then prove yourself, instead of just critizing other people's work, this is how flame wars start and i have no intention of letting that happen.

What im seeing from you is pure arrogance, and that is one thing i personally hate to see in people. You think you are better than everyone here, then prove it, otherwise keep your comments to yourself.

Eternal
10-14-2008, 07:17 PM
Well I do see a lot of potential in Chris as he has knowledge of what he's saying. So it would be better to state your reasoning in a less criticizing way. You want the convey to the person that made the analysis that it isn't viable, and that you found something else like EV spread, Moveset, etc; more viable.

I know you are trying to help, but criticizing isn't the way to help.

TheREALPimplup
11-29-2008, 09:10 PM
Thank you for defending me guys, but I guess he's right... BTW, do anyone of you know who hacked onto my account?