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i am cool
09-09-2008, 08:44 AM
why isn't bl played? why isn't ther a bl tier?

These are some popular questions i have asked myself, isn't uber a ban tier and yet many people play it and there's a ladder? my question here, is, shouldn't we get a bl ladder? how can we do so since it's not balanced? exactly my point, since ubers isn't balanced, yet it really is, suprisngly ubers is balanced, and no one had to work on making it so like they did for uu and ou, although ubers still remains a ban tier yet is balanced some how, bl is obviously not balanced, well why not make it so? i know everybody is saying, since it's a ban tier who would want to play it and banning pokes from a ban tier is only creating more of a mess, but...

The pokes that deem broken for bl, are exactly what i mean, these pokes are moved to ou, making the ou metagame much larger as a result as well and more variety as well, so the pokes that are banned become ou since they're banned from the ban tier, ubers are some how balanced since they're the top tier, the max tier of power, which is why they're balanced, but as for bl, they're the between tier, so they are obviously not balanced.

What i'm trying to say is, that we analyse every poke, see what counters it in bl/uu and then from there on if it deems to broken then we have a testing period with such pokes, a ladder should be implimented after this, once this is all done, we can enjoy a new metagame with pokes we always wished to use, like suppose houndoom, no one would use him in ou since they'll be scared of getting crushed, but in bl, houndoom might be even broken, but that's another story for another day, now what i want you to do, is, start from the first of the bl list, and 10 votes should be put on the poke the disussion is going against, like we're arguing about abomosnow, u vote in bold letters and then explain why he should be banned to ou, this is just an example, 10 votes are neough for one single poke, now i want u to start.....let's start with, abomosnow.

Statigar
09-09-2008, 03:08 PM
we will get a BL ladder. i just need to learn how shoddy works, and we can have ladders for all the tiers.

i am cool
09-09-2008, 03:18 PM
this is not the case, it's great when we will, but we should try to balance it when we do.

Edit: 2nd breaking of rule :(

Elevator Music
09-27-2008, 03:17 PM
But BL IS unbalanced. Ubers is unbalanced as well, but it's more of an anything goes tier.

Moving BL pokemon to OU doesn't change anything. There will still be just as much variety. You don't need to OU tier to tell you what is common in the metagame, you can use playing experience for that. Plus, it makes the OU tier not accuate by adding in pokemon that aren't actually OverUsed.

The only way I can think to 'balance' BL while still having a legitimate OU tier is to create a separate ban list between BL and OU. However, that is unecessarily overcomplicated.

i am cool
09-30-2008, 08:38 AM
elaborate more about your idea, elevator music.

you make a point, i just want to balance bl whilst not doing any changes to other tiers....wait, actually, how do we have proof bl isnt' balanced? has anyone played bl matches? why do people say bl isn't balanced? theyroeymoan....

palas
09-30-2008, 08:48 AM
Yes, BL and OU must be combined, Team NOOOOOBER guys.

Rock Head
09-30-2008, 11:07 AM
Well you have to look at it's Pros and Cons, i mean if we were to have a ladder almos no one would use it because BL is good in OU but for the UU ladder i can understand

Elevator Music
10-01-2008, 01:24 AM
The reason you can't combine OU and BL is because that would make it so OU isn't an accurate representation of the most common (and also most powerful) pokemon.

However, you can't allow BLs in UU for the same reason you don't want to put Giratina, Mewtwo, Arceus, Kyogre, and the rest of the Ubers in OU.

Your only option for creating a balanced BL tier would be to play the metagame and ban the most overcentralizing pokemon. They wouldn't necessarily be in OU, but more of a tier in between BL and OU. This is of course assuming that BL is indeed an unbalanced tier (which I think it is). I feel that this is a bit too overcomplicated though, and there's no need to go through all this effort.

Eternal
10-01-2008, 01:47 AM
The reason you can't combine OU and BL is because that would make it so OU isn't an accurate representation of the most common (and also most powerful) pokemon.

However, you can't allow BLs in UU for the same reason you don't want to put Giratina, Mewtwo, Arceus, Kyogre, and the rest of the Ubers in OU.

Your only option for creating a balanced BL tier would be to play the metagame and ban the most overcentralizing pokemon. They wouldn't necessarily be in OU, but more of a tier in between BL and OU. This is of course assuming that BL is indeed an unbalanced tier (which I think it is). I feel that this is a bit too overcomplicated though, and there's no need to go through all this effort.

yes, I agree. BL is an unbalanced tier.

Kuja20
10-01-2008, 10:45 AM
for those who dont understand tiers

Banned: Arceus: This cannot be used within the Uber Tier (too powerful)

Ubers: This is a BAN LIST for OU, they are too stong for OU, whether they perform well in OU is a different story, it really doesnt matter, how many times do you see a balanced Deoxys? lol.

Limbo: Not a tier as such, but this is an in-between tier, with pokes that are to be decided upon after testing. No pokes are currently here.

OU: AKA Overused, these pokes are those who have reletively high usage in standard battling. These are mostly over powered pokes that are too stong for lower tiers.

BL: AKA Borderline, this is a BAN LIST for UU. These pokes are too strong for UU pokes but not quite good enough to fit into the OU metagame. This is argueably the most unbalanced tier there is and it doesnt have its own metagame. Not to say it cant play in the OU metagame but it doesnt bring to the standards as OU pokes do.

UU: AKA Underused, these pokes are the pokes that dont generally get used at all in the OU metagame. This tier has its own metagame, and is frequently played as so. They are not powerful enough, or have certain elements that do not allow it to be played that effectively in above tiers that often.

NFE: AKA Not Fully Evolved, these are simply pokemon that havent been evolved yet. The majority of NFEs are banned from UU and are usually considered BL, there are a few exceptions to this. Scyther and Pikachu reside in the UU tier.

i am cool
10-04-2008, 02:06 PM
kuja not any disrespect, but you're an idiot, let me ducking explain for the last time, shoddy tries to simulate the game, arceus can not be legally obtained in the game hence why it's banned, since shoddy simlates th god damn game, banning arceus for power is dumb, you're trying to balanced ubers which is a faux tier.......we shouldn't balance bl, it's not broken, just please tell me, why the duck is bl a broken tier, i haver played a few bl matches and don't find anything broken, really why do you people assume bl is a broken tier?

MustBeEmo
11-20-2008, 10:42 PM
This seems like a good idea but it WOULD take alot of work to turn BL into an actual metagame not a banlist. It's the only tier with out a metagame, it seems stupid to just waste a tier on a banlist. Ubers is a banlist with a metagame therefore BL deserves one. The closest BL ever gets to action is rare BL/UU battles. We have Limbo for between Uber and OU so why can we have another for BL and OU. Things that are too powerful for BL DO deserve to move up to OU. OU should consist of the pokemon too powerful for lower tiers. Just like Ubers are too powerful OU and BLs are too powerful UU. OUs should be what are too powerful for BL.

Kuja20
11-21-2008, 12:56 AM
kuja not any disrespect, but you're an idiot, let me ducking explain for the last time, shoddy tries to simulate the game, arceus can not be legally obtained in the game hence why it's banned, since shoddy simlates th god damn game, banning arceus for power is dumb, you're trying to balanced ubers which is a faux tier.......we shouldn't balance bl, it's not broken, just please tell me, why the duck is bl a broken tier, i haver played a few bl matches and don't find anything broken, really why do you people assume bl is a broken tier?

Skymin cant "legally" be used on wifi, yet we can use it on shoddy, similating wifi 100%? HA! What i dont like iac, is that i get one small fact wrong and you call me an idiot, that IS disrespecting me. Should i call you an idiot because you can't even proof read your posts, making sure the spelling is actually readable? I don't because i have more respect for other people and their posts. Think before you post iac.

i am cool
11-22-2008, 12:18 PM
I love you kuja <3.

Look, m.u.e makes a good point. Ubers is imo a tad broken, this is because specs ogre rapes everything. My specs ogre team (or so called offensive team) rarely lost and those rare losses were due to hax. Palkia takes 50% from waterspout average and if it decides to go min damage then stealth rocks can aid you. Its waterspout basically kills one pokemon then it switches out...comes back in and wrecks havok, it's like garchomp but the problem is it can't be banned since there is no tier higher than ubers, ubers is a pretty faux tier hence no one cares to ban things or ****.

The same case applies to bl, if you ban a bl poke because it's broken then it can't go anywhere, it can't be ou since it was put bl in the first place because it is not able to compete in ou and is too broken for uu. This is why bl should have its own tier! it's like ubers, same case. Now please tell me what's so "broken" about bl? Rain teams a problem? then you could bring some rain counters from uu like lanturn and mantine to counter even rain kingdra or kabutops! srsly what's so "broken"?

Dimes
11-23-2008, 12:48 AM
for those who dont understand tiers

Banned: Arceus: This cannot be used within the Uber Tier (too powerful)

Ubers: This is a BAN LIST for OU, they are too stong for OU, whether they perform well in OU is a different story, it really doesnt matter, how many times do you see a balanced Deoxys? lol.

Limbo: Not a tier as such, but this is an in-between tier, with pokes that are to be decided upon after testing. No pokes are currently here.

OU: AKA Overused, these pokes are those who have reletively high usage in standard battling. These are mostly over powered pokes that are too stong for lower tiers.

BL: AKA Borderline, this is a BAN LIST for UU. These pokes are too strong for UU pokes but not quite good enough to fit into the OU metagame. This is argueably the most unbalanced tier there is and it doesnt have its own metagame. Not to say it cant play in the OU metagame but it doesnt bring to the standards as OU pokes do.

UU: AKA Underused, these pokes are the pokes that dont generally get used at all in the OU metagame. This tier has its own metagame, and is frequently played as so. They are not powerful enough, or have certain elements that do not allow it to be played that effectively in above tiers that often.

NFE: AKA Not Fully Evolved, these are simply pokemon that havent been evolved yet. The majority of NFEs are banned from UU and are usually considered BL, there are a few exceptions to this. Scyther and Pikachu reside in the UU tier.


1. Arceus is part of the uber tier. 2. BL is not Pokemon too weak for the OU tier. Infact, BL is OU, only BL is pokemon used less and helps define threats in the current OU metagame. 3. You are missing Trapinch, Vigoroth and Clamperl too from NFE in UU.

Dragard
11-23-2008, 01:24 AM
Who the hell deleted my post? And why >_>?

Kuja20
11-23-2008, 09:44 AM
[quote=kuja20]for those who dont understand tiers

Banned: Arceus: This cannot be used within the Uber Tier (too powerful)

Ubers: This is a BAN LIST for OU, they are too stong for OU, whether they perform well in OU is a different story, it really doesnt matter, how many times do you see a balanced Deoxys? lol.

Limbo: Not a tier as such, but this is an in-between tier, with pokes that are to be decided upon after testing. No pokes are currently here.

OU: AKA Overused, these pokes are those who have reletively high usage in standard battling. These are mostly over powered pokes that are too stong for lower tiers.

BL: AKA Borderline, this is a BAN LIST for UU. These pokes are too strong for UU pokes but not quite good enough to fit into the OU metagame. This is argueably the most unbalanced tier there is and it doesnt have its own metagame. Not to say it cant play in the OU metagame but it doesnt bring to the standards as OU pokes do.

UU: AKA Underused, these pokes are the pokes that dont generally get used at all in the OU metagame. This tier has its own metagame, and is frequently played as so. They are not powerful enough, or have certain elements that do not allow it to be played that effectively in above tiers that often.

NFE: AKA Not Fully Evolved, these are simply pokemon that havent been evolved yet. The majority of NFEs are banned from UU and are usually considered BL, there are a few exceptions to this. Scyther and Pikachu reside in the UU tier.



1. Arceus is part of the uber tier.
Only technically, but its true that it is banned from Ubers, but i wasnt giving it as a seperate tier, i was just saying that it is banned from Ubers, which it is, even though it is part of it.


2. BL is not Pokemon too weak for the OU tier. Infact, BL is OU, only BL is pokemon used less and helps define threats in the current OU metagame.I didnt say weaker, i said doesnt quite hold the standards of OU battles, in otherwords NOT CONSISTANTLY VIABLE TO WORK IN THE CURRENT METAGAME.


3. You are missing Trapinch, Vigoroth and Clamperl too from NFE in UU.[/quote:266yz9p4]

I was giving them as an example, seeing as they are fairly common, i wasnt going to list them all.

I like how you gladly spotted my mistakes, AFTER iac spotted a small one in my original post.