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-TheDude420
04-12-2009, 02:31 AM
Are you tired of a meta game littered with Dragons and Steels? Personally, I am so I've set out to create a team that can defeat Dragons and Steels without resorting to using Dragons and Steels. It seems to me like we have forgotten about strong walls and have instead opted to run resistances instead. I've set out to prove that people don't need to use Dragons and Steels to counter Dragons and Steels. There are other ways to do it. So now, the team at a glance.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png

At first glance, my team doesn't look very effective. Even I can see that and I designed the team. So, I'm going to go over the team building process which will give you a look inside my head and let you see exactly why I chose each Pokemon. Feel free to skip this part.

Team Building

I started off by looking at the types that my team was supposed to be able to counter; Dragons and Steels. They are weak to Ice, Ground, Fire, Fighting respectively. This meant that I was going to need some kind of combination of the four to effectively take down opposing Dragons and Steels. Immediately Mamoswine popped into my head. With his dual stabs covering both Dragons and Steels he seemed like the perfect fit. Now, I need a Fire type. At first glance, Infernape seemed like a great fit. Again, his dual stabs offer great coverage in terms of Steel killing.

With my offensive front created, it was time to come up with a solid defense. The two biggest threats were going to be Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Latias and Outrage from Salamence. To counter Latias, I decided to simply run the strongest special wall in the game, Blissey. She does a nice job at sponging up any Draco Meteors that I might see. The next threat, Salamence was a bit trickier to counter. Stab Outrage is almost impossible to stop without using a Steel to counter it so I was going to need something whose specific purpose on the team is to switch into Outrages. That Pokemon is Ambipom. Why? Honestly, I don't know. But Ambipom is a great fit on this team and you'll see why later on in the descriptions. Once Salamence is locked into an Outrage, he's easy pickings for Mamoswine.

Now that the Dragons are taken care of, I had to figure out a way to combat opposing Steel types, mainly Scizor and Metagross. Rotom-A make great swich-ins to Steel types so I immediately put one on the team. I wanted some extra insurance against Scizor, so I decided to run a Gyarados as well.

So that left me with a team that looked something like this.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png

Now let's take a closer look.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png
Ambipom @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Fake Out
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Double Hit
---

Role: Ambipom has several roles on this team and it is really the glue that holds my entire team together. Ambipom makes a great lead. He breaks sashes, and Taunts Stealth Rock leads. Ambipom also does a great job at drawing Steel Pokemon out so that I can take care of them. It doesn't end there though. Ambipom makes a great revenge killer with Fake Out + Double Hit. But, the Ambipom's main role on this team is to switch into Outrages so that Mamoswine can get the revenge kill.

Moveset: Fake Out is for obvious reasons. When used along with Double Hit, I can revenge kill a wide variety of Pokes as well as getting rid of annoying sub users. Taunt lets me prevent support moves and U-tun lets me scout for Steels.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Cloak
252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Superpower
- Ice Shard
---

Role: Mamoswine is the real start of this team. My strategy with Mamo is to bring it in on a severely weakened foe and Ice Shard it making my opponent think that I am Banded. Then I can surprise my opponent later on in the game by out speeding them with my Scarf. ScarfMamo can out speed so many threats in the metagame including max speed ScarfTran.

Moveset: Earthquake is for obvious reasons. Ice Fang is my most powerful Ice attack and lets me take down Flyers and Dragons. Superpower gives me added coverage on Steels, namely Bronzong. Ice Shard is my main form of revenge killing Dragons and it helps to deceive my opponent into thinking that I am Banded.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png
Blissey@ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
252 Def | 120 SpA | 136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Toxic
---

Role: Blissey is my main switch in to Draco Meteor and she does a great job absorbing them. She also serves as an all purpose switch in to special sweepers and can stall most of them out.

Moveset: This is the basic Toxic stalling moveset. The only difference is I prefer Softboiled over Wish because I like having the instant recovery as opposed to having to Protect to recover. This helps to prevent people from out predicting me. Heatran gives this moveset problems but Gyarados can take on Heatran head to head.

http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png
Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
252 HP | 120 Def | 136 SpD
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-o-wisp
- Discharge
---

Role: Rotom is my switch in to Scizors and other offensive Steel types. Rotom is also my status absorber and can really stay in battles for a long time with Rest. Rotom cripples physical sweepers with WoW and special sweepers with Discharge if i get lucky. The reason that I'm running Rotom-c over the other formes is to try and fool my opponent into thinking that I carry Leaf Storm because bulky waters give my team some problems.

Moveset: I've already pretty much explained this in the description of Rotom's role. Rest and Sleep Talk allow me to absorb status for the rest of my team and help with survivability. WoW lets me cripple physical sweepers and Discharge lets me counter Gyarados and prevents me from being crippled by Taunt.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
156 HP | 108 Atk | 100 Def | 144 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
---

Role: Gyarados gives me more protection against Scizor and gives my team some offensive capabilities as well. Gyarados also helps me to cover Heatran and easily turns Heatran into set up fodder.

Moveset: Taunt is such an underrated move. It helps Gyarados to set up so easily. I run Earthquake so I can have added coverage against Steel types. I feel that Stone Edge isn't as effective because it doesn't really help me all that much against Gyarados' normal switch ins.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png
Infernape @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
64 Atk | 252 SpA | 192 Spe
Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
---

Role: Infernape started off as my late game sweeper but I find that I like bringing him in whenever I get a chance to. That's why I run Expert Belt over Life Orb. I like to keep Infernape alive as long as possible and Life Orb doesn't really let me do that. Once my opponent's team has been significantly weakened throughout the game Infernape can come in and finish things off with his amazing type coverage.

Moveset: Everybody should know this moveset. I run both Grass Knot and Hidden Power [Ice] to give myself as much coverage as possible.

Please don't recommend that I use any Dragons and Steels.

rate/hate/steal!

Blackout
04-12-2009, 06:25 PM
This is certainly an interesting team to look at. I shall post the flaws later, as I really can't see any right now.

TODICHU
04-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Are you tired of a meta game littered with Dragons and Steels? Personally, I am so I've set out to create a team that can defeat Dragons and Steels without resorting to using Dragons and Steels. It seems to me like we have forgotten about strong walls and have instead opted to run resistances instead. I've set out to prove that people don't need to use Dragons and Steels to counter Dragons and Steels. There are other ways to do it. So now, the team at a glance.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png

At first glance, my team doesn't look very effective. Even I can see that and I designed the team. So, I'm going to go over the team building process which will give you a look inside my head and let you see exactly why I chose each Pokemon. Feel free to skip this part.

Team Building

I started off by looking at the types that my team was supposed to be able to counter; Dragons and Steels. They are weak to Ice, Ground, Fire, Fighting respectively. This meant that I was going to need some kind of combination of the four to effectively take down opposing Dragons and Steels. Immediately Mamoswine popped into my head. With his dual stabs covering both Dragons and Steels he seemed like the perfect fit. Now, I need a Fire type. At first glance, Infernape seemed like a great fit. Again, his dual stabs offer great coverage in terms of Steel killing.

With my offensive front created, it was time to come up with a solid defense. The two biggest threats were going to be Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Latias and Outrage from Salamence. To counter Latias, I decided to simply run the strongest special wall in the game, Blissey. She does a nice job at sponging up any Draco Meteors that I might see. The next threat, Salamence was a bit trickier to counter. Stab Outrage is almost impossible to stop without using a Steel to counter it so I was going to need something whose specific purpose on the team is to switch into Outrages. That Pokemon is Ambipom. Why? Honestly, I don't know. But Ambipom is a great fit on this team and you'll see why later on in the descriptions. Once Salamence is locked into an Outrage, he's easy pickings for Mamoswine.

Now that the Dragons are taken care of, I had to figure out a way to combat opposing Steel types, mainly Scizor and Metagross. Rotom-A make great swich-ins to Steel types so I immediately put one on the team. I wanted some extra insurance against Scizor, so I decided to run a Gyarados as well.

So that left me with a team that looked something like this.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png

Now let's take a closer look.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/424-m.png
Ambipom @Life Orb
Ability: Technician
252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Fake Out
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Double Hit

You wanna know bad Silk Scarf is? its so bad i dont even know what it does -_- just put a life orb on this guy =/

Apart from that hes fine.

I like Taunt on it BTW never seen it on a Ampipom
---

Role: Ambipom has several roles on this team and it is really the glue that holds my entire team together. Ambipom makes a great lead. He breaks sashes, and Taunts Stealth Rock leads. Ambipom also does a great job at drawing Steel Pokemon out so that I can take care of them. It doesn't end there though. Ambipom makes a great revenge killer with Fake Out + Double Hit. But, the Ambipom's main role on this team is to switch into Outrages so that Mamoswine can get the revenge kill.

Moveset: Fake Out is for obvious reasons. When used along with Double Hit, I can revenge kill a wide variety of Pokes as well as getting rid of annoying sub users. Taunt lets me prevent support moves and U-tun lets me scout for Steels.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/473-m.png
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Cloak
252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Superpower
- Ice Shard

lol i used to use ScarfSwine i prefer CB though but overall. its k
---

Role: Mamoswine is the real start of this team. My strategy with Mamo is to bring it in on a severely weakened foe and Ice Shard it making my opponent think that I am Banded. Then I can surprise my opponent later on in the game by out speeding them with my Scarf. ScarfMamo can out speed so many threats in the metagame including max speed ScarfTran.

Moveset: Earthquake is for obvious reasons. Ice Fang is my most powerful Ice attack and lets me take down Flyers and Dragons. Superpower gives me added coverage on Steels, namely Bronzong. Ice Shard is my main form of revenge killing Dragons and it helps to deceive my opponent into thinking that I am Banded.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/242.png
Blissey@ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
252 Def | 120 SpA | 136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Wish
- Flamethrower
- Protect/Thunder-Wave
- Toxic

[b]Meh, i prefer wishbliss, you have protect anyway so i see no reason NOT to have it. If you decide to keep softboiled there is no reason what so ever to have Protect so put Thunder Wave there or anything else you can think of
---

Role: Blissey is my main switch in to Draco Meteor and she does a great job absorbing them. She also serves as an all purpose switch in to special sweepers and can stall most of them out.

Moveset: This is the basic Toxic stalling moveset. The only difference is I prefer Softboiled over Wish because I like having the instant recovery as opposed to having to Protect to recover. This helps to prevent people from out predicting me. Heatran gives this moveset problems but Gyarados can take on Heatran head to head.

http://zyetendo.com/pkmn_platinum/sprites/479-l.png
Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
252 HP | 120 Def | 136 SpD
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-o-wisp
- Discharge/Thunderbolt

[b]With Will-O-Wisp i dont see why you need para support from Discharge since its your only attacking move get Thunderbolt.
However Para support and Burn may be nice
---

Role: Rotom is my switch in to Scizors and other offensive Steel types. Rotom is also my status absorber and can really stay in battles for a long time with Rest. Rotom cripples physical sweepers with WoW and special sweepers with Discharge if i get lucky. The reason that I'm running Rotom-c over the other formes is to try and fool my opponent into thinking that I carry Leaf Storm because bulky waters give my team some problems.

Moveset: I've already pretty much explained this in the description of Rotom's role. Rest and Sleep Talk allow me to absorb status for the rest of my team and help with survivability. WoW lets me cripple physical sweepers and Discharge lets me counter Gyarados and prevents me from being crippled by Taunt.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/130-m.png
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
156 HP | 108 Atk | 100 Def | 144 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Nice EV spread ;) straight from smogg0n i see nothing wrong.
---

Role: Gyarados gives me more protection against Scizor and gives my team some offensive capabilities as well. Gyarados also helps me to cover Heatran and easily turns Heatran into set up fodder.

Moveset: Taunt is such an underrated move. It helps Gyarados to set up so easily. I run Earthquake so I can have added coverage against Steel types. I feel that Stone Edge isn't as effective because it doesn't really help me all that much against Gyarados' normal switch ins.

http://www.serebii.net/platinum/pokemon/392-m.png
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
64 Atk | 252 SpA | 192 Spe
Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

If you bring him in whenever you get the chance your better running Life Orb over Expert belt its not as if 10% Hp makes a difference on ape it wont even affect you
---

Role: Infernape started off as my late game sweeper but I find that I like bringing him in whenever I get a chance to. That's why I run Expert Belt over Life Orb. I like to keep Infernape alive as long as possible and Life Orb doesn't really let me do that. Once my opponent's team has been significantly weakened throughout the game Infernape can come in and finish things off with his amazing type coverage.

Moveset: Everybody should know this moveset. I run both Grass Knot and Hidden Power [Ice] to give myself as much coverage as possible.

Please don't recommend that I use any Dragons and Steels.

rate/hate/steal!

Welcome to TU dude!

New stuff in bold

i am cool
04-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Welcome to Team Uber dude!

I'll help you out with this team dude, since you seem really knowledgable about the game and looking for some help. I'm sure you'll mkae an awesome addition to Team Uber ^_^.

Anyway...

Taunt is generally a terrible option on Ampibom because slower leads such as Hippowdon will just Earthquake 2 times after you Taunt them, thus killing your Ampibom, and then they'll switch out and come back in to set up the Stealth Rock you were trying so hard to prevent with Ampibom. Winning a Speed-tie against Azelf is also something you won't be relying on, so he will generally set up Stealth Rock. Aerodactly is just plain faster, and will easily dispose of you with Earthquake and then come in later to Stealth Rock.

That is why I suggest you replace Taunt on Ampibom in favor for Ice Punch, since it helps against Aerodactyl and Hippowdon and can usually kill the Dragons your team is cenetered around killing.

Habitually, Wish is better on a Blissey with Protect since it's instand recovery because Protect has a priority of +3. The argument of Soft Boiled bringing instant recovery is just fallacious.

Your team is also a bit Salamence and Dragonite weak, the Pokemon you tried so much to releave yourself off...I suggest going for a more Bulky DD Gyara, taking off ALL the Speed EVs might help and putting them into Defense and going for Impish will as well. After that is done, just switch Earthquake for Stone Edge and Taunt for Ice Fang, that way you assure yourself you can rely on another way of countering the Dragons besides relying on revenge-killing through Mamoswine.

I suggest going for a more bulky Special Defense set on Rotom, since Jolteon will cause a lot of problems if it's being used by a skill player and Blissey is fainted.

Choice Band should also be used over Choice Scarf on Mamoswine, since Choice Scarf Mamoswine just doesn't fit your team...

And as Todichu (<3) mentioned, Life Orb is superior to Silk Scarf generally, especially for your team currently.

Other than these minor flaws, this team is just amazing. You are certainly a great addition for TU ^_^. Be sure to post around.

-TheDude420
04-13-2009, 02:04 AM
Taunt is generally a terrible option on Ampibom because slower leads such as Hippowdon will just Earthquake 2 times after you Taunt them, thus killing your Ampibom, and then they'll switch out and come back in to set up the Stealth Rock you were trying so hard to prevent with Ampibom. Winning a Speed-tie against Azelf is also something you won't be relying on, so he will generally set up Stealth Rock. Aerodactly is just plain faster, and will easily dispose of you with Earthquake and then come in later to Stealth Rock.

That is why I suggest you replace Taunt on Ampibom in favor for Ice Punch, since it helps against Aerodactyl and Hippowdon and can usually kill the Dragons your team is cenetered around killing.


I like Taunt when used in conjunction with U-turn. Hippowdon's generally only carry Earthquake which means that I always U-turn to Rotom which lets me get a free WoW on something. I don't Taunt Azelfs because I have a 50% chance to prevent them from setting up Rocks if I simply just attack them. Aerodactyl is in the same boat as Hippowdon. I switch in Rotom and go for the WoW. Taunt is generally very effective on the most common leads that I see. That being Heatran, Infernape, and Metagross.



Habitually, Wish is better on a Blissey with Protect since it's instand recovery because Protect has a priority of +3. The argument of Soft Boiled bringing instant recovery is just fallacious.

The thing is though, once my opponent sees me use Softboiled, they never expect Protect coming. This is really nice against things like Gengar and Heatran who could potentially explode. I'm all about deception and this deception at it's finest.


Your team is also a bit Salamence and Dragonite weak, the Pokemon you tried so much to releave yourself off...I suggest going for a more Bulky DD Gyara, taking off ALL the Speed EVs might help and putting them into Defense and going for Impish will as well. After that is done, just switch Earthquake for Stone Edge and Taunt for Ice Fang, that way you assure yourself you can rely on another way of countering the Dragons besides relying on revenge-killing through Mamoswine.

I really like this idea. Stone had recommend that I run Ice Fang over Taunt on Gyarados but this takes it one step futher. I like it. I'll test it on and see what happens.


Choice Band should also be used over Choice Scarf on Mamoswine, since Choice Scarf Mamoswine just doesn't fit your team...

I would have to agree with that. Scarf has been nice for a few surprise kills but the lack of power has really been a let down.


And as Todichu (<3) mentioned, Life Orb is superior to Silk Scarf generally, especially for your team currently.

I'll definitely test this out.


Other than these minor flaws, this team is just amazing. You are certainly a great addition for TU ^_^. Be sure to post around.

Hehe thanks. ^_^ I'll be sure to post as much as I can.

Iconic
04-13-2009, 02:36 AM
Yeah I agree that you you should switch your Mamoswine to CB. You already have Blissey to sponge ScarfTran's attacks, and you have a great priority move on Mamoswine, so the Speed isn't really necessary. Also, even though it's not an offensive team per-say, I think just about any team could use Stealth Rocks. Many common leads accomplish this, Metagross, Azelf, Aero, etc. I don't see how Ambipom really helps with the snyergy of this team, so you could run Azelf (with Taunt) or Metagross, either of which can help you get SR up early and effectively.

-TheDude420
04-13-2009, 02:44 AM
Ambipom is really an integral part of my team. It draws out Steels looking to absorb normal attacks and then I U-turn away to bring something to counter that Steel in. I also bring Ambipom in for revenge kills all the time. It's hard to explain in words how much I use Ambipom. You would have to see me use it in a battle to understand how important it is to my team.

i am cool
04-13-2009, 09:06 AM
I get what you're saying, hence why I didn't suggest you change Ampibom. However, I still believe Taunt is a terrible option on Ampibom, as in the end the Leads will get their desired Stealth Rock, since Ampibom will eventually fall and won't be able to stop them from setting up the Stealth Rock your team despises. Hence, Taunt is practically useless on Ampibom, so I suggest you change it for something more..."useful"?

I don't know how to explain it's uselessness, but I hope you're understanding what I'm saying.

-TheDude420
04-13-2009, 07:34 PM
The way I see it, Ambipom doesn't really have any other useful moves and keeping SR off the field for even a few turns is beneficial. I guess I could run Payback over Taunt which would help with the Ghosts that switch in.

Safe_Kid
04-13-2009, 08:42 PM
Well this looks like a well built team, First of all you would have a problem with Heatran leads, because it would require you some good prediction. You wont know what type of tran it is, You would fake out on the first turn then what? Taunt it so it wont SR? while you get fire blasted, OR? Switch to blissey allowing it to SR? Things you might want to consider. I haven't seen your team properly but ill say this. Give infernape U-Turn instead of HP Ice, this will help for scouting and incoming latias'. HP ice im guessing is for those dragons, but you already have Mamoswine for that. And i think that your Scarf mamoswine is cool, this would definitely have your opponent on its toes. But CB could be considered.

Heres an idea, maybe run a restalk Gyarados, and a TrickScarf Rotom. I would have to say Gyarados is the most important pokemon in your team, countering many pokemon. And its your main infernape counter, keep it living as long as you can. If that fails you can have ScarfRotom Revenge killing ape.

But this is a good team in general, and a good RMT.

i am cool
04-13-2009, 10:12 PM
Safe, Rest Talk Gyara means it can only Waterfall, making this team more and more Dragon weak and then only leaving Mamoswine able to revenge-kill a +1 Speed Dragon; which is terrible. This is why I suggested the given Gyarados spread, to have Bulkyness and remain powerful on the Physical spectrum.

Nice spotting the Heatran lead weak; this is why I suggest you put Brick Break on Ampibom instead of Taunt--that makes you capable of defeating Heatran in two shots: One as it Stealth Rock, and then hitting it with the second for the kill. Even if you have Taunt, Heatran will still dispose of Ampibom anyway and set up Stealth Rock later on, so that's another point of why Taunt is useless on Ampibom.

Despite your team being a bit Stealth Rock lead, you'll just have to play conservatively and make careful switch-ins and you're set.

Stone_Cold22
04-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Brick Break or Shadow Claw. SE is always nice.

-TheDude420
04-14-2009, 03:35 AM
I completely forgot that Ambipom learned Brick Break xD

I really like you guys. I posted my team on Smogon and everybody was like "You need Steels on this team or it fails." I love that you guys actually helped out and gave real suggestions. I already like TU better than Smogon :D

*EDIT*

So I've been working on a Gyarados spread. Here's what I've come up with.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
252 HP/ 128 Def / 40 SpD / 88 Spe
Impish nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang

The EVs are pretty spread out but I believe they function pretty well. I maxed out HP just to make myself as bulky as possible. Then I tried to figure out how much Gyarados would do to Salamence with Ice Fang. It turns out that I can do 276 - 328 (83.38% - 99.09%) to a min HP/Def Salamence without any EV investment which is great. That means that I'm going to have to work Stealth Rock somewhere into the team so I Can insure that I get the OHKO with Ice Fang. Next I wanted to deal with Heatran because Blissey can't really stop Heatran at all with the current moveset. 40 SpD EVs lets me take 23.86% - 28.17% from a Timid Scarftran's Fire Blast and it deals around 33% max if it's Modest. The Spe EVs let me outspeed positive natured Salamence after I DD. I dumped the rest of the EVs into Def to make myself even more bulky.

The next thing that I'm going to need is something that can reliably set up Stealth Rock. I'm thinking that at this point, Mamoswine is kind of wasted now that I have this Gyarados so I may consider running something else instead of Mamoswine. Or, I could just run Stealth Rock on Mamoswine. That could work. Opinions?

I've also noticed that I have a huge problem with Tyranitar as well. I don't really know what I can do to fix this.

Safe_Kid
04-14-2009, 09:54 AM
Safe, Rest Talk Gyara means it can only Waterfall, making this team more and more Dragon weak and then only leaving Mamoswine able to revenge-kill a +1 Speed Dragon; which is terrible. This is why I suggested the given Gyarados spread, to have Bulkyness and remain powerful on the Physical spectrum.

Nice spotting the Heatran lead weak; this is why I suggest you put Brick Break on Ampibom instead of Taunt--that makes you capable of defeating Heatran in two shots: One as it Stealth Rock, and then hitting it with the second for the kill. Even if you have Taunt, Heatran will still dispose of Ampibom anyway and set up Stealth Rock later on, so that's another point of why Taunt is useless on Ampibom.

Despite your team being a bit Stealth Rock lead, you'll just have to play conservatively and make careful switch-ins and you're set.


No newb, **** DD Gyra. This is what i meant. Waterfall/Avalanche/Rest/SleepTalk. 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 6 sp def.
Also you could try a Gliscor or Skamory instead of Mamo, they also give u a chance to SR.

i am cool
04-14-2009, 11:02 AM
If that's the case, I suggest you keep the Scarf on Mamoswine and put Stealth Rock instead of say, Ice Fang. I suggest you run the set Safe_Kid proposed, something along the lines of:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
252 HP/ 216 Def / 40 SpD
Impish nature
- Avalanche
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

You'd want to drop the Speed EVs to make Avalanche more effective.

As for TTar, we can't fix that problem without making the team fail, hence I sugget you rely on revenge killing and prediction...Every team has to be weak to something right?

FTUU
04-20-2009, 03:44 AM
Ambipom serves little purpose on this team, as it's primary function is death fodder. You shouldn't put a pokemon on your team that you expect from the beginning to serve no purpose and die. Instead, I recommend Gliscor. Why? It counter's T-Tar (except ice beam boa), can survive two Outrages from Salamence and kill it without you needing to sacrifice a pokemon, and sets up SR to boot.

i am cool
04-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Ampibom serves the most necessary niche on this team--an Anti-lead. The priority brought by Fake Out gives this team the very welcome possibility of stopping a stat up sweeper right in its tracks. Basically, Ampibom is needed on this team.

cat
04-21-2009, 02:40 AM
I'm a bit surprised( and dissapointed similarly) that none of you mentioned stall, which completely decimates this team. You only have one poke that could even think about standing to stall and that's infernape, and even he does a bad job of this because for nape to succeed he really needs nasty plot. You really have a desision to make (1)forego hp ice and change it to nasty plot or (2) keep hp ice and change your item to life orb. Personally I would either change my nape to a swords dance one or np life orb one but I'm not going to ask you to change your team too much.

But we're not finnished with stall controll! When I see you mamoswine I throw up, not because it a particularly bad set or anything, but because choiced earth quake makes me sick. For a team thats main goal is to counter dragons you really are setting yourself up for some repeated salamence abuse. That's why I propose you change that scarf to a life orb.
Mamoswine@life orb
252att / 232 spe / 24 sp. att
Brave/Hasty
~earthquake
~ice shard
~blizzard
~stone egde/super power

This set will help you acomplish two things
1. Helps you nab a quick kill on salamence/dragonite/gyarados who think you are choices and switch into you earthquakes

2. Help aginst stall by taking out bulky grounds that switch in to wall you. This also helps aginst the famous skarmbliss combo by 2hkoing both. You could nab a Ohko on bliss with super power but stone edge us genrally better for it's ability to make quick work of gyarados and zapdos as well as being a reliable way to hit rotom.

I hope this helped and have fun with your team!